Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 08:08:15 -0800 (PST) From: opentrax@email.com To: tlambert@primenet.com Cc: jhb@FreeBSD.ORG, msmith@FreeBSD.ORG, chat@FreeBSD.ORG, stable@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dedicated disks (was: Dangerously Dedicated) Message-ID: <200011231608.IAA02277@spammie.svbug.com> In-Reply-To: <200011222253.PAA06600@usr05.primenet.com>
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Terry, your comments have been posted to: http://www.freebsd.org/projects/platform_issues/ddvsbios/index.html This URL is made freely available. Authors wishing to add comments are encourage to read the 'Restrictions for Inclusion' (the first paragraph). Authors do NOT have to email me for inclusion with regards to this issue, 1) if posted on 'stable' or 'arch' (I will add other ML later) 2) if posting contains 'Dedicated disks' or 'Dangreously Dedicated' in the subject line 3) if posting contains [SVBUG add me to ddvsbios] as the first line of the message (nothing else,please), and 4) if it has bullets (or points) with a for/against header. Points do not have to be balanced or neutral. Bias points are expected. Points do not have to be technical in nature, but must be at least technical in basis. Please note this is experimental and is subject to errors, arguments and unhappiness. Should this prove of some worth, this system could help relieve issues having been 'discussed in excruciating details'. Hence forth this system will be called 'Turkey Discussion' in honour of today. :-) best regards, Jessem. webmaster@svbug.com On 22 Nov, Terry Lambert wrote: > [ ... on the impending death of "Dangerously Dedicated" ... ] > >> > The only problem is that the issues _have_ been discussed in excruciating >> > detail many times. I suggest you make use of the mail archives. >> >> Mr. Smith, if the issues have been hashed out as you say, the perhaps >> a document can be pointed that outlines these issue clearly. >> Your suggestion, while a fine one, has un-seen harm of people >> associating (harsh) discussion on the matter, rather than seeing >> the bluk of the matter. I've stated my opinion, that does not >> lessen yours. Could I expect that you might be able outline >> yours points in an enumerate list or bulletize format? > > For: > > o In "Dangerously Dedicated" mode, some laptops will SPAM > your FreeBSD partition when told to "suspend to disk" > > o You can not easily add another OS to an existing system, > without a full backup and restore > > o Commerical boot managers have problems with it; this is > an issue when you have FreeBSD on one "Dangerously > Dedicated" disk, and anohter OS on a second disk > > o Commercial partition manipulation tools can not move > disk contents around opaquely; this would still be a > problem for OSs which hard code their kernel location > in their second stage boot (does NetBSD still do this?), > but would not be a problem for FreeBSD. Example: the > program "fips" can move Linux parititons around; the > commercvial program "Partition Magic" from Power Quest > supports Linux, but does not support FreeBSD (they go > so far as to actually support EXT2FS manipulation). > > o An increasing number of BIOS will divide by 0 when they > are attempting to implement LBA addressing. These > systems simply _can not boot_, given FreeBSD's fake DOS > partition table in its disklabel > > o The FreeBSD fake DOS partition table does not pass a > number BIOS-based self-consistency checks (it needs to > be fixed -- feel free to bell the cat), and so systems > which use these checks in the BIOS to protect against > boot sector virus infestation _can not boot_. > > > Against: > > o Some fictitious geometries are fictionalized in the > controller, and are opaque through one interface, but > not another. The only way these can work is if the > linear array of bytes starts at 0,0,0. Example: WD1007 > ESDI controller, without jumper J2 set. These systems > can be set up using non-default tools (in point of fact, > I have _always_ had to use NetBSD's tools to setup these > systems: FreeBSD's tools have _never_ worked for them, > even in "Dangerously Dedicated" mode; after partitioning > using NetBSD, FreeBSD can be isntalled normally). > > o Existing "Dangerously Dedicated" systems. This is really > not an issue, since what is being removed is the ability > to create them with the default tools, not the ability to > boot from existing systems after an upgrade. > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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