Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 08:29:20 -0500 From: Jason Hellenthal <jhellenthal@dataix.net> To: Mark Martinec <Mark.Martinec+freebsd@ijs.si> Cc: "freebsd-net@freebsd.org" <freebsd-net@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Merge ping+ping6 and traceroue+traceroute6 to single utilities? Message-ID: <BADCCBF9-4EE4-426E-968F-0C223F625482@dataix.net> In-Reply-To: <b944d0984aadeb5ca28c8d03bd367558@mailbox.ijs.si> References: <1063008459.20140111160525@serebryakov.spb.ru> <52D14140.3090003@gibfest.dk> <20140111.143644.41639035.sthaug@nethelp.no> <52D15185.50802@gibfest.dk> <CAO2cuEM2qVu2PGOJ2WfFz-aiQKw8T6drGz4oxLkUAEnXptK8TQ@mail.gmail.com> <b944d0984aadeb5ca28c8d03bd367558@mailbox.ijs.si>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
--Apple-Mail-9D9D4CF5-E245-4ACD-9490-F52EA6ABAC1F
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Something like this should not be that hard to convince anyone to commit the=
change. I've seen three IIRC people in the past that had patches and they a=
lso commented on how easy it was.
Why on earth I don't understand people need to pull their grey beards out ov=
er something that isn't going to interfere with their day to day lives if do=
ne correctly.
As you say . . . cisco, Juniper, Microsoft, but yet FreeBSD is regarded as .=
. . Advanced network operating system.
Just because a new protocol is invented doesn't mean that there should be a s=
eparate utility. That's an annoyance and a write off to do the right thing.
Otherwise we may as well start writing everything to be protocol dependent.
Regards to just ping though aren't 9/10 times you are using it because name s=
ervices have failed in some way so you are providing an address ?
One of my daughters under the age of 10 knows the difference between v4 and v=
6 addresses. Uses windows ping and is confused by *ix systems because ping d=
oesn't recognize ::1. Try to explain that to someone under ten. In a way it'=
s a little embarrassing.
--=20
Jason Hellenthal
Voice: 95.30.17.6/616
JJH48-ARIN
> On Feb 11, 2014, at 5:56, Mark Martinec <Mark.Martinec+freebsd@ijs.si> wro=
te:
>=20
> 2014-02-11 10:00, Jason Hellenthal wrote:
>> ping localhost ("grab any name, you just want to know its alive")
>> ping 127.0.0.1 ("you know you are pinging v4 without a doubt")
>> ping ::1 ("you also know you are pinging v6 without a doubt")
>> ping -4 localhost ("you know you are getting v4 without a doubt")
>> ping -6 localhost ("you know you are getting v6 without a doubt")
>> ping -4 ::1 ("must be retarded in some way")
>=20
> That's how it works in several commercial routers (Cisco, Summit, Juniper,=
...)
> and that's how it works in Windows 7/8. No surprises to a user there,
> 'does the right thing'.
>=20
>> Doing it right and merging these two would leave for more constructive us=
e.
> [...]
>> There is no reason whatsoever that these utilities cannot be combined. An=
d
>> there is one very valid reason they should be.
> [...]
>> Quite frankly I am tired of seeing the old pessimism and paradigms that
>> projects keep falling into over silly little subtle changes.
>=20
> Remember the original PHK's story ( http://bikeshed.com/ ) ?
> It ended favourably for the sleep(1) command, it got its new feature.
> What can be learned there is: just needs someone to do it and be
> persistent enough to be accepted.
>=20
> Looks like a perfect task for Google Summer of Code 2014,
> time to apply is very near:
> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2014
>=20
>=20
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd-net@freebsd.org mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-net
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-net-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
--Apple-Mail-9D9D4CF5-E245-4ACD-9490-F52EA6ABAC1F
Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature;
name=smime.p7s
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename=smime.p7s
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIUOTCCBjAw
ggUYoAMCAQICAwaijjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQsFADCBjDELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwxFjAUBgNVBAoTDVN0
YXJ0Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3VyZSBEaWdpdGFsIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNpZ25pbmcx
ODA2BgNVBAMTL1N0YXJ0Q29tIENsYXNzIDEgUHJpbWFyeSBJbnRlcm1lZGlhdGUgQ2xpZW50IENB
MB4XDTEzMDUxODA4NTA0OFoXDTE0MDUxOTIyMDk0N1owSDEfMB0GA1UEAwwWamhlbGxlbnRoYWxA
ZGF0YWl4Lm5ldDElMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYWamhlbGxlbnRoYWxAZGF0YWl4Lm5ldDCCASIwDQYJ
KoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBALgnYFS1bWZr3KhKBzWAdRwrY+En+RRV8nCaYubqrMG+
YJbuenaIKSbIuFiDWipW4RHYTpE28pKaSnaVTG9WtAZvsWj0gYN9g2fYCnCOUceES2Yvi3RavxpB
hsuzKIfsHb8iNNSEuczLu6gn4mQyaHwE4x6xSUKmbK8njR+YoF522F60wjsnq5dlOJdTrhDfObE5
5P23279WbRp8azgZX1VRB66wdKRDuSI1vBts4Nsha2paXd6HUUduHrPACBQREJTGXN8XtEKVwo63
aKUhRgtUwHNEuSWck/xwVl7PBUWH2dORAWTCqHjNuCKNOQ1/0LMiyMj7FdsBjN4dgL4YZpsCAwEA
AaOCAtwwggLYMAkGA1UdEwQCMAAwCwYDVR0PBAQDAgSwMB0GA1UdJQQWMBQGCCsGAQUFBwMCBggr
BgEFBQcDBDAdBgNVHQ4EFgQU29qUrmZtgQ7ZVoDKogfpJOSfk+YwHwYDVR0jBBgwFoAUU3Ltkpzg
2ssBXHx+ljVO8tS4UYIwIQYDVR0RBBowGIEWamhlbGxlbnRoYWxAZGF0YWl4Lm5ldDCCAUwGA1Ud
IASCAUMwggE/MIIBOwYLKwYBBAGBtTcBAgMwggEqMC4GCCsGAQUFBwIBFiJodHRwOi8vd3d3LnN0
YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9wb2xpY3kucGRmMIH3BggrBgEFBQcCAjCB6jAnFiBTdGFydENvbSBDZXJ0aWZp
Y2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTADAgEBGoG+VGhpcyBjZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSB3YXMgaXNzdWVkIGFjY29y
ZGluZyB0byB0aGUgQ2xhc3MgMSBWYWxpZGF0aW9uIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBvZiB0aGUgU3RhcnRD
b20gQ0EgcG9saWN5LCByZWxpYW5jZSBvbmx5IGZvciB0aGUgaW50ZW5kZWQgcHVycG9zZSBpbiBj
b21wbGlhbmNlIG9mIHRoZSByZWx5aW5nIHBhcnR5IG9ibGlnYXRpb25zLjA2BgNVHR8ELzAtMCug
KaAnhiVodHRwOi8vY3JsLnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9jcnR1MS1jcmwuY3JsMIGOBggrBgEFBQcBAQSB
gTB/MDkGCCsGAQUFBzABhi1odHRwOi8vb2NzcC5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20vc3ViL2NsYXNzMS9jbGll
bnQvY2EwQgYIKwYBBQUHMAKGNmh0dHA6Ly9haWEuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL2NlcnRzL3N1Yi5jbGFz
czEuY2xpZW50LmNhLmNydDAjBgNVHRIEHDAahhhodHRwOi8vd3d3LnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS8wDQYJ
KoZIhvcNAQELBQADggEBAHsw8/Hw07gsNTKYnld74NBFtHnQOPkXYuccWx3j0PGQe9nqNxeingBf
2yvx+xBQzBoi4J1u84Jbrbe8Ii3+LLD/QMW9cN0SBIgRStPQLVee4STdjeabGmpXQa7omC02wYYO
83qh6CgJEIbmrsBSZH8ZSVrjkC4UmZS8wAQMS3qTWAPF0ZQGWx2+Gks2fXuacyt2LpNR+p9ogjAZ
1/rmUKjNhQZLswytaLRUdwAwSfQ3+TNs68h6Kv1LC3bNGBT3NEtr2q/nzzb5MzuFcDE6f9exroAC
4BHmokAprhna/vZdb6BrPjpXgRAlWAh3wEMxw75M9S/Nbzj/jNp+I+lvUJYwggY0MIIEHKADAgEC
AgEeMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMH0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQu
MSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMSkwJwYDVQQDEyBT
dGFydENvbSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTAeFw0wNzEwMjQyMTAxNTVaFw0xNzEwMjQy
MTAxNTVaMIGMMQswCQYDVQQGEwJJTDEWMBQGA1UEChMNU3RhcnRDb20gTHRkLjErMCkGA1UECxMi
U2VjdXJlIERpZ2l0YWwgQ2VydGlmaWNhdGUgU2lnbmluZzE4MDYGA1UEAxMvU3RhcnRDb20gQ2xh
c3MgMSBQcmltYXJ5IEludGVybWVkaWF0ZSBDbGllbnQgQ0EwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IB
DwAwggEKAoIBAQDHCYPMzi3YGrEppC4Tq5a+ijKDjKaIQZZVR63UbxIP6uq/I0fhCu+cQhoUfE6E
RKKnu8zPf1Jwuk0tsvVCk6U9b+0UjM0dLep3ZdE1gblK/1FwYT5Pipsu2yOMluLqwvsuz9/9f1+1
PKHG/FaR/wpbfuIqu54qzHDYeqiUfsYzoVflR80DAC7hmJ+SmZnNTWyUGHJbBpA8Q89lGxahNvur
yGaC/o2/ceD2uYDX9U8Eg5DpIpGQdcbQeGarV04WgAUjjXX5r/2dabmtxWMZwhZna//jdiSyrrSM
TGKkDiXm6/3/4ebfeZuCYKzN2P8O2F/Xe2AC/Y7zeEsnR7FOp+uXAgMBAAGjggGtMIIBqTAPBgNV
HRMBAf8EBTADAQH/MA4GA1UdDwEB/wQEAwIBBjAdBgNVHQ4EFgQUU3Ltkpzg2ssBXHx+ljVO8tS4
UYIwHwYDVR0jBBgwFoAUTgvvGqRAW6UXaYcwyjRoQ9BBrvIwZgYIKwYBBQUHAQEEWjBYMCcGCCsG
AQUFBzABhhtodHRwOi8vb2NzcC5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20vY2EwLQYIKwYBBQUHMAKGIWh0dHA6Ly93
d3cuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL3Nmc2NhLmNydDBbBgNVHR8EVDBSMCegJaAjhiFodHRwOi8vd3d3LnN0
YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9zZnNjYS5jcmwwJ6AloCOGIWh0dHA6Ly9jcmwuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL3Nmc2Nh
LmNybDCBgAYDVR0gBHkwdzB1BgsrBgEEAYG1NwECATBmMC4GCCsGAQUFBwIBFiJodHRwOi8vd3d3
LnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9wb2xpY3kucGRmMDQGCCsGAQUFBwIBFihodHRwOi8vd3d3LnN0YXJ0c3Ns
LmNvbS9pbnRlcm1lZGlhdGUucGRmMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4ICAQAKgwh9eKssBly4Y4xerhy5
I3dNoXHYfYa8PlVLL/qtXnkFgdtY1o95CfegFJTwqBBmf8pyTUnFsukDFUI22zF5bVHzuJ+GxhnS
qN2sD1qetbYwBYK2iyYA5Pg7Er1A+hKMIzEzcduRkIMmCeUTyMyikfbUFvIBivtvkR8ZFAk22BZy
+pJfAoedO61HTz4qSfQoCRcLN5A0t4DkuVhTMXIzuQ8CnykhExD6x4e6ebIbrjZLb7L+ocR0y4Yj
Cl/Pd4MXU91y0vTipgr/O75CDUHDRHCCKBVmz/Rzkc/b970MEeHt5LC3NiWTgBSvrLEuVzBKM586
YoRD9Dy3OHQgWI270g+5MYA8GfgI/EPT5G7xPbCDz+zjdH89PeR3U4So4lSXur6H6vp+m9TQXPF3
a0LwZrp8MQ+Z77U1uL7TelWO5lApsbAonrqASfTpaprFVkL4nyGH+NHST2ZJPWIBk81i6Vw0ny0q
ZW2Niy/QvVNKbb43A43ny076khXO7cNbBIRdJ/6qQNq9Bqb5C0Q5nEsFcj75oxQRqlKf6TcvGbjx
kJh8BYtv9ePsXklAxtm8J7GCUBthHSQgepbkOexhJ0wP8imUkyiPHQ0GvEnd83129fZjoEhdGwXV
27ioRKbj/cIq7JRXun0NbeY+UdMYu9jGfIpDLtUUGSgsg2zMGs5R4jCCB8kwggWxoAMCAQICAQEw
DQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwfTELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwxFjAUBgNVBAoTDVN0YXJ0Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzAp
BgNVBAsTIlNlY3VyZSBEaWdpdGFsIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNpZ25pbmcxKTAnBgNVBAMTIFN0YXJ0
Q29tIENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MB4XDTA2MDkxNzE5NDYzNloXDTM2MDkxNzE5NDYz
NlowfTELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwxFjAUBgNVBAoTDVN0YXJ0Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3Vy
ZSBEaWdpdGFsIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNpZ25pbmcxKTAnBgNVBAMTIFN0YXJ0Q29tIENlcnRpZmlj
YXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MIICIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAg8AMIICCgKCAgEAwYjbCbxsRnx4
n5V7tTOQ8nJi1sE2ICIkXs7pd/JDCqIGZKTMjjb4OOYj8G5tsTzdcqOFHKHTPbQzK9Mvr/7qsEFZ
Z7bEBn0KnnSF1nlMgDd63zkFUln39BtGQ6TShYXSw3HzdWI0uiyKfx6P7u000BHHls1SPboz1t1N
3gs7SkufwiYv+rUWHHI1d8o8XebK4SaLGjZ2XAHbdBQl/u21oIgP3XjKLR8HlzABLXJ5+kbWEyqo
uaarg0kd5fLv3eQBjhgKj2NTFoViqQ4ZOsy1ZqbCa3QH5Cvhdj60bdj2ROFzYh87xL6gU1YlbFEJ
96qryr92/W2b853bvz1mvAxWqq+YSJU6S9+nWFDZOHWpW+pDDAL/mevobE1wWyllnN2qXcyvATHs
DOvSjejqnHvmbvcnZgwaSNduQuM/3iE+e+ENcPtjqqhsGlS0XCV6yaLJixamuyx+F14FTVhuEh0B
7hIQDcYyfxj//PT6zW6R6DZJvhpIaYvClk0aErJpF8EKkNb6eSJIv7p7afhwx/p6N9jYDdJ2T1f/
kLfjkdLd78Jgt2c63f6qnPDUi39yIs7Gn5e2+K+KoBCo2fsYxra1XFI8ibYZKnMBCg8DsxJg8nov
gdujbv8mMJf1i92JV7atPbOvK8W3dgLwpdYrmoYUKnL24zOMXQlLE9+7jHQTUksCAwEAAaOCAlIw
ggJOMAwGA1UdEwQFMAMBAf8wCwYDVR0PBAQDAgGuMB0GA1UdDgQWBBROC+8apEBbpRdphzDKNGhD
0EGu8jBkBgNVHR8EXTBbMCygKqAohiZodHRwOi8vY2VydC5zdGFydGNvbS5vcmcvc2ZzY2EtY3Js
LmNybDAroCmgJ4YlaHR0cDovL2NybC5zdGFydGNvbS5vcmcvc2ZzY2EtY3JsLmNybDCCAV0GA1Ud
IASCAVQwggFQMIIBTAYLKwYBBAGBtTcBAQEwggE7MC8GCCsGAQUFBwIBFiNodHRwOi8vY2VydC5z
dGFydGNvbS5vcmcvcG9saWN5LnBkZjA1BggrBgEFBQcCARYpaHR0cDovL2NlcnQuc3RhcnRjb20u
b3JnL2ludGVybWVkaWF0ZS5wZGYwgdAGCCsGAQUFBwICMIHDMCcWIFN0YXJ0IENvbW1lcmNpYWwg
KFN0YXJ0Q29tKSBMdGQuMAMCAQEagZdMaW1pdGVkIExpYWJpbGl0eSwgcmVhZCB0aGUgc2VjdGlv
biAqTGVnYWwgTGltaXRhdGlvbnMqIG9mIHRoZSBTdGFydENvbSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhv
cml0eSBQb2xpY3kgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGF0IGh0dHA6Ly9jZXJ0LnN0YXJ0Y29tLm9yZy9wb2xpY3ku
cGRmMBEGCWCGSAGG+EIBAQQEAwIABzA4BglghkgBhvhCAQ0EKxYpU3RhcnRDb20gRnJlZSBTU0wg
Q2VydGlmaWNhdGlvbiBBdXRob3JpdHkwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggIBABZsmfRmDDT10IVefQrs
2hBOOBxe36YlBUuRMsHoO/E93UQJWwdJiinLZgK3sZr3JZgJPI4b4d02hytLu2jTOWY9oCbH8jmR
HVGrgnt+1c5a5OIDV3Bplwj5XlimCt+MBppFFhY4Cl5X9mLHegIF5rwetfKe9Kkpg/iyFONuKIdE
w5Aa3jipPKxDTWRFzt0oqVzyc3sE+Bfoq7HzLlxkbnMxOhK4vLMR5H2PgVGaO42J9E2TZns8A+3T
mh2a82VQ9aDQdZ8vr/DqgkOY+GmciXnEQ45GcuNkNhKv9yUeOImQd37Da2q5w8tES6x4kIvnxywe
SxFEyDRSJ80KXZ+FwYnVGnjylRBTMt2AhGZ12bVoKPthLr6EqDjAmRKGpR5nZK0GLi+pcIXHlg98
iWX1jkNUDqvdpYA5lGDANMmWcCyjEvUfSHu9HH5rt52Q9CI7rvj8Ksr6glKg769LVZPrwbXwIous
NE4mIgShhyx1SrflfRPXuAxkwDbSyS+GEowjCcEbgjtzSaNqV4eU5dZ4xZlDY+NN4Hct4WWZcmkE
GkcJ5g8BViT7H78OealYLrnECQF+lbptAAY+supKEDnY0Cv1v+x1v5cCxQkbCNxVN+KB+zeEQ2Ig
yudWS2Xq/mzBJJMkoTTrBf+aIq6bfT/xZVEKpjBqs/SIHIAN/HKK6INeMYIDbzCCA2sCAQEwgZQw
gYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUg
RGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAxIFBy
aW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENsaWVudCBDQQIDBqKOMAkGBSsOAwIaBQCgggGvMBgGCSqGSIb3
DQEJAzELBgkqhkiG9w0BBwEwHAYJKoZIhvcNAQkFMQ8XDTE0MDIxMTEzMjkyMVowIwYJKoZIhvcN
AQkEMRYEFNupiODTSYfiQ3isgqvrNd9SX6+AMIGlBgkrBgEEAYI3EAQxgZcwgZQwgYwxCzAJBgNV
BAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBD
ZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAxIFByaW1hcnkgSW50
ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENsaWVudCBDQQIDBqKOMIGnBgsqhkiG9w0BCRACCzGBl6CBlDCBjDELMAkGA1UE
BhMCSUwxFjAUBgNVBAoTDVN0YXJ0Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3VyZSBEaWdpdGFsIENl
cnRpZmljYXRlIFNpZ25pbmcxODA2BgNVBAMTL1N0YXJ0Q29tIENsYXNzIDEgUHJpbWFyeSBJbnRl
cm1lZGlhdGUgQ2xpZW50IENBAgMGoo4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEAOQuhRDjs2OA7SSVzdBVh
ubXRzuc/reO/uTjVR8u4PcyZ+HdDTqWGA3iiLselEIDNQO5+wBS7th1RxPmq+QMr+35UTZY9P7tk
P9nKEr4s/dF9BPj8bpdwEYCTt/XfpMemXrohus22AQchawGAm9zQotTqC30g7GK0WcxmJA1+m2K4
3ucL6/7KCjKp0zuch1xWPRxD4txSOs9/jhKVjOJX77Tt4rWZjXy5laEZgCn8x46Hw1z6dEgHMg8m
I8ZnkMwLyYkHMZXNCD/CtW9LI1mi2J5CPJwfX1z8hkq4whk2/CDF3fL+vYyqgQZXu7kkvFyDCDZm
3wtdxOP8HTjl9L70zQAAAAAAAA==
--Apple-Mail-9D9D4CF5-E245-4ACD-9490-F52EA6ABAC1F--
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?BADCCBF9-4EE4-426E-968F-0C223F625482>