Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2015 14:54:20 +0100 From: John Marino <mfl-commissioner@marino.st> To: Andrey Chernov <ache@freebsd.org>, marino@freebsd.org, Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@freebsd.org> Cc: NGie Cooper <yaneurabeya@gmail.com>, Craig Rodrigues <rodrigc@FreeBSD.org>, freebsd-current Current <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>, "freebsd-testing@freebsd.org" <testing@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Need help fixing failing locale tests Message-ID: <56488E8C.9080901@marino.st> In-Reply-To: <56488A76.1090502@freebsd.org> References: <CAG=rPVc1t2q_MR99iyWYfy4xrCy==KA1yT=EAaa2twiHoC=zcA@mail.gmail.com> <CAG=rPVfK6ZyWJhtuBihmj%2BWNp94auCJ3kDqoQm-ygXNpiLeatA@mail.gmail.com> <69242BD8-9010-47F0-9706-BE206376ECEA@gmail.com> <289892B6-EACE-4BDA-B838-D3DC750319DE@gmail.com> <56482FA9.2010803@marino.st> <56487973.5070803@freebsd.org> <20151115124656.GB93991@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <564880FA.5000009@freebsd.org> <564882A3.7060109@marino.st> <5648842E.3050203@freebsd.org> <5648853F.2050901@marino.st> <56488A76.1090502@freebsd.org>
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On 11/15/2015 2:36 PM, Andrey Chernov wrote: > On 15.11.2015 16:14, John Marino wrote: >>> It is user confusion and his responsibility. It not leads to wrong >>> program build f.e. Moreover, you can't protect users who set 8859-1 that >>> way, they do not convert to 8859-15 as you assume but start to complain >>> everywhere that FreeBSD is not working instead. >> >> Invalid. "locale -a" shows what locales are available. >> The confusion is not with one user. It's with one user that produces >> document in one encoding and a second user that choses the wrong one >> (usually -1). -15 was designed to replace -1. > > No end-user use 'locale -a' to check locales. To quote you, that means it "user confusion and responsibility". Fine. He can "ls -d /usr/share/locales". Otherwise, how does said user set locales for the FIRST time. We are talking about people that install FreeBSD 11 as a release. If it's an upgrade, it's documented in UPDATING (it will be) and anybody on -CURRENT is taking responsibility for knowing what they are doing. *IF* this is an obstacle, it's either trivial or that user shouldn't be using -CURRENT to begin with. > An end-user keep some > 8859-1 version is set many years ago, and "FreeBSD not working" problem > I tell about is not different text document encoding, but program > failure due to inability to set his 8859-1 locale. Please provide an example of such a program (in ports). > In any case it is related to the user behavior an various views on it. > They can be different and I see no point to insist on my particular view > at all. But... Programs configure soft-fails shows real danger here. and the impact of this is ... ? > >> OpenBSD removed ISO8859* completely. > > OpenBSD was never good in locales in any case for all that years and > contributes nothing in that area (f.e. Citrus was made by NetBSD). Now > they try to simplify their life of supporting them, but since for us now > all locales are autogenerated from CLDR I see no room for simplification > in that way. Our "cleaned" locales (against to POLA) can be restored by > autogeneration with minimal efforts, and they even took very little disk > space. It's not a technical issue. -1 (and some -15) weren't removed for technical issues, but to keep order. >> Also invalid. Locales are not standardized with regard to encoding, so >> maintaining a museum of locales is specific to FreeBSD. Linux calls >> them differently. > > Most of our (old) locales have the same names as linux ones. Actually, none of the ISO* encodings. Linux will accept "ISO8859-1" because it's hyphen-insensitive, it it calls it "ISO-8859-1" Maybe obsolete ones like cp866, GB2312 ... but there are more different than the same. John
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