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Date:      Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:46:39 +0800 (SGT)
From:      Swee-Chuan Khoo <sckhoo@asiapac.net>
To:        "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" <michaelv@MindBender.serv.net>
Cc:        Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>, dennis <dennis@etinc.com>, Alex Belits <abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us>, isp@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: FreeBSD and NT 
Message-ID:  <Pine.SOL.3.96.970723134604.1285D-100000@topgun>
In-Reply-To: <199707230503.WAA05004@MindBender.serv.net>

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ok guys, back to discussing ISP issue on FreeBSD. ok?

we are getting no where on this. thanx.

On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com wrote:

> 
> >> >I started asking around some of my 'NT' expert friends, and if you do
> >> >'development' on an NT box, it's *very* unstable.  Normal users can take
> [...]
> 
> >> So what you're saying is I, and the thousands of people using NT for
> >> serious development, without crashing it, are imagining things?
> 
> >I'm saying that there aren't thousands of people using NT for serious
> >development w/out crashing it.  I asked around to the the dozens of
> >people I know that develop under NT, and they all say it crashes.
> >(Though not as often as Win 3.1).  Interestingly enough, I *rarely*
> >crash Win95, but I guess I'm just lucky.
> 
> I hate to burst your bubble, but it's true.  I wouldn't be so adamant
> about it except that I do it successfully on a regular basis.  My NT
> box works fine.  I push it hard.  A lot.  It never crashes.  It never
> does anything bad.  Thousands of developers at Microsoft do the same.
> Thousands, if not millions, of people use NT for mission-critical
> servers, and manage to keep it up for weeks at a time.
> 
> I'm sorry you're having so many problems.  And I'm not discounting
> your experience.  Obviously you're having problems, but without an
> intimate knowledge of the situation, I can't tell you why you're
> having problems.
> 
> And, obviously, this is a very anti-Microsoft crowd.  I'd expect to
> find a lot of people with a lot of negative things to say about NT.
> No big deal.  I just want you to understand that there are a lot of
> people who manage to push NT very hard and not crash it.  I don't
> expect you to actually like NT, or Microsoft.
> 
> That doesn't make FreeBSD any less an excellent Unix.  As I said in my
> first post, there are a bunch of reasons why FreeBSD/NetBSD are better
> for a small ISP.  Not the least of which is that *BSD is in fact
> substantially more responsive on lesser hardware.  (Though I don't buy
> the Novell guy's story -- a tired has-been OS that is way past its
> prime -- it might run a little faster, but what does it give you?  Not
> much.)
> 
> >> I'm willing to accept that there is a buggy driver(s) which is biting
> >> many people, and causing them lots of instability.
> 
> >With a Diamond video card, arguably the most common/popular card in
> >existance?
> 
> I have a Diamond card myself.  An S3 Virge-based Diamond Stealth 3D
> 3400.  It works rock solid with my Asus P6NP5 motherboard.  The exact
> same video card wouldn't even boot in a Dell OptiPlex GXPro.  Go
> figure.
> 
> >> However, the fact that many many people are able to do serious
> >> development on NT without crashes attests to the assertion that it is
> >> not NT by itself that is the problem.
> 
> >See above.  I don't buy the statement that 'many people are able to do
> >development w/out serious crashes'.
> 
> Regardless, it's true.
> 
> >> Where is this Java/Visual-Depth patch located?
> 
> >Look in the knowledge database on the WWW server.  I don't have the
> >patch off-hand, but Java programs won't run in greater than 8-bit mode
> >w/out it.
> 
> OK, so without this patch you crash the Java VM, an application, or
> the entire NT OS?
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Michael L. VanLoon                           michaelv@MindBender.serv.net
>         --<  Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x  >--
>     NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3,
>         Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32...
>     NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others...
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

----------------------------------------------------------------
Swee-Chuan Khoo		sckhoo@asiapac.net
System Administrator - Internet Evangelist
http://www.asiapac.net/~sckhoo/	     #include <std.disclaimner>
----------------------------------------------------------------
Astronimical Soc M'sia http://www.asiapac.net/~sckhoo/asm.html

"Simplify - There is no value in complexity, it's too difficult to
manage."




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