Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2018 16:44:02 +0800 From: blubee blubeeme <gurenchan@gmail.com> To: mmacy@freebsd.org Cc: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>, Ali Abdallah <aliovx@gmail.com>, FreeBSD current <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: drm / drm2 removal in 12 Message-ID: <CALM2mEmyjKD5vQexvHfeZK0Jud7HpGSn3RspBqFq49TzrfcwNg@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CAPrugNqsqQds6tBzeQcA%2B5tD4xh%2Bi1Fef2ta8Qjf5E6LTxPq4Q@mail.gmail.com> References: <CAPrugNr9wN63ANjTYzyrHRegr9KTk_OSTLfrt%2BhktCnfKX=_mg@mail.gmail.com> <20180824215302.ivfna55jtrtc5trg@freebsd480.station> <CAPrugNqV6k2QTuiLerAKLB_hV1hkZNi4MLNqKU7MtVnMhMfPQw@mail.gmail.com> <CANCZdfp2rf=5e-qTV=-4yFrLPugn0UhtYovXdesJWbRWAjdGTg@mail.gmail.com> <CALM2mEmJVqfeERTL4AWw7cY3YfPUY6TFw==1hzBqsDJNDde_Uw@mail.gmail.com> <CAPrugNqsqQds6tBzeQcA%2B5tD4xh%2Bi1Fef2ta8Qjf5E6LTxPq4Q@mail.gmail.com>
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On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 4:27 PM Matthew Macy <mmacy@freebsd.org> wrote: > Hi Owen - > I understand that you're enthusiastic and you just want what's best for > the project. However, there's a couple of points I hope you'll take to > heart. First, please read what you sent and think about the tone and word > choice. It's extremely negative and critical - you're actively alienating > people on the list. You're not going to be successful engaging any open > source community or workplace if you choose to communicate like this. > Second, this is a volunteer project. One needs to establish a track recor= d > of producing patches and working with developers to get them committed. > Regardless of how sound your technical position is - you're going to have= a > hard time being acknowledged if there is no contribution to match. > > Best wishes. > -M > True on both points my tone is just a reflection of attitudes of the individuals that I am currently addressing. Some people enjoy making contributions w/o waving a banner constantly wanting acknowledgement, a pat on the head and good job from everyone. How far will core FreeBSD bend over backwards to accommodate these devs. Their project is half baked at best and sure it works; sorta if the moon is just right. This is the beauty of an open source project, we bring the best to the table, not rip off two legs only to glue them back on later just slightly askew. This isn't a world where everyone gets a gold star, people fail even if they work very hard, failure is still an option. I guess the most important question to ask is what's the standards that the FreeBSD Foundation want to represent, uphold, and maintain? > > > On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 4:07 PM blubee blubeeme <gurenchan@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 6:26 AM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 4:20 PM Matthew Macy <mmacy@freebsd.org> wrote: >>> >>> > On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 14:53 Ali <aliovx@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > >>> > > On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 06:54:54PM -0700, Matthew Macy wrote: >>> > > > Just in case anyone misses the change to UPDATING: >>> > > > >>> > > > 20180821: >>> > > > drm and drm2 have been removed. Users on powerpc, 32-bit >>> > > hardware, >>> > > > or with GPUs predating Radeon and i915 will need to >>> install the >>> > > > graphics/drm-legacy-kmod. All other users should be able >>> to use >>> > > > one of the LinuxKPI-based ports: graphics/drm-stable-kmod= , >>> > > > graphics/drm-next-kmod, graphics/drm-devel-kmod. >>> > > > Note that this applies only to 12. >>> > > >>> > > I see that The removal of drm and drm2 has been reverted on svn. >>> Could >>> > > you please kindly share the reasons behind the re-inclusion? >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > I can=E2=80=99t really give the blow by blow of internal project dram= a, but the >>> > gist of it is that =E2=80=9Cbest practices=E2=80=9D (which are not ye= t actually >>> documented >>> > anywhere that I=E2=80=99ve seen) were not followed with regards to th= e >>> deprecation >>> > process. Warner and others believe that we can address the objectives >>> of >>> > the drm removal (improving the user experience and communicating that >>> > drm/drm2 are _completely_ unsupported apart from continuing to compil= e) >>> > through less disruptive means. >>> > >>> >>> Just so. >>> >>> Our only continued frustration is that we were never given any guidance >>> by >>> > RE or core on said =E2=80=9Cbest practices=E2=80=9D when the discussi= on was taking >>> place in >>> > May and then those groups behaved as if this were a surprise when the >>> > removal happened. I=E2=80=99m cautiously optimistic that this well ex= pedite >>> > improving communications on those matters. >>> > >>> >>> All the problems that are exposed by this aren't technical. This one is >>> social, but no less important. >>> >>> Warner >>> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >>> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to " >>> freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>> >> >> I've been watching this debacle for quite some time now and I'd just lik= e >> to ask why the rush? >> >> The graphics team is working very hard to destroy the stability of >> FreeBSD just so that they can force their uncooked work down users throa= ts. >> >> The Linuxkpi is unstable at best, alpha level software that's constantly >> in need of someone to go and fix something on FreeBSD because Linux devs >> decided to make some changes or implement a new feature. >> >> This project: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Use%20linuxkpi%20in%20DRM >> Goals >> >> - Move DRM headers to a similar location as Linux >> - >> >> Use kmalloc() instead of malloc(9) >> - Use kref >> - >> >> Use idr and get rid of drm_gem_names.c >> - Use PCI API >> - Use Linux locking primitives >> >> is garbage, if you want to use develop Linux code and use Linux then go >> do that on Linux. >> >> Are these guys insane and please avoid the nonsense about you're doing >> this in your spare time. >> >> If you cannot devote the resources to do something right then don't do i= t >> at all. >> >> Keep that stuff in to yourself or anyone crazy enough to follow those >> steps to get it up and running, you guys cannot expect to contaminate th= e >> entire FreeBSD project for this mess. >> >> This is nonsense and I hope that more people who see it as such would sa= y >> so and stop having these guys forcing this crap; it's maintenance hell w= ho >> will maintain it if they decide to leave? >> >> Best, >> Owen >> >> >
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