Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 03:02:54 -0700 From: Stanislav Sedov <stas@freebsd.org> To: Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@FreeBSD.org> Cc: "src-committers@freebsd.org" <src-committers@freebsd.org>, "svn-src-all@freebsd.org" <svn-src-all@freebsd.org>, Dmitry Marakasov <amdmi3@amdmi3.ru>, Slawa Olhovchenkov <slw@zxy.spb.ru>, "svn-src-head@freebsd.org" <svn-src-head@freebsd.org>, Garrett Cooper <yaneurabeya@gmail.com> Subject: Re: svn commit: r281129 - head/etc Message-ID: <7D18BE54-E0D3-42D6-A00F-1CF7DE435DD8@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <20150410092942.GF99375@FreeBSD.org> References: <20150406085323.GL23643@zxy.spb.ru> <20150409215802.GY21982@hades.panopticon> <20150409220442.GQ8220@zxy.spb.ru> <20150409232711.GZ21982@hades.panopticon> <20150409234026.GH1394@zxy.spb.ru> <20150410000259.GA21982@hades.panopticon> <20150410070845.GU8220@zxy.spb.ru> <20150410073230.GE99375@FreeBSD.org> <CB87FA26-8C78-4A20-BC2C-6D3A9F0031E7@FreeBSD.org> <C7B81740-9763-491E-9DBC-ECB4D368B82F@freebsd.org> <20150410092942.GF99375@FreeBSD.org>
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> On Apr 10, 2015, at 2:29 AM, Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@FreeBSD.org> wrote: > > Yes, we do. And it is long overdue. > > Today vast majority of Russian users do this change manually. > Minority stays with KOI8-R. Even Slawa mentions that he is > migrating machines. > > Yes, this has impact on people doing upgrade. But before we > have impact on people doing fresh install. Since today most > Russian users already did this change manually, we expect impact > to be small. > > Let me enumerate problems for those who stay with KOI8-R: > > If your terminal is in KOI8: > - Emails with umlaut in From: are mangled. You compose reply, > you put "?" char into person's name. > - Emails from Japanese and Chinese people are even worse. The > entire name is ??????. > > If your filesystem is in KOI8: > - Email attachments you save have names mangled. > - Many Gnome based applications crash. > - You can't read file names from downloaded torrents with Russian > file names inside, neither you can create your own torrent shares > that would be compatible with others. > > Those who use FreeBSD as desktop, except very small minority, > switched to UTF-8. I’m not arguing the benefits of UTF8/KOI8 and userbase sizes of both, although I don’t necessarily agree with all the statements above. The question here is how to introduce the change in the least disruptive way. And I fail to see how adding a new, russian_utf login class is inferior to modifying the existing one, which is for better or for worse was using koi8-r for decades. The way I see it, if we modify the existing class: * New and existing users created without login class are unaffected; * New users created with the ‘russian’ class explicitly set will have UTF-8 encoding enabled; * Existing users with the ‘russian’ login class switch from koi8-r to utf8. This is a no-op for the UTF8 russian userbase, and a forced change for KOI8 users as they will have to either modify the login class, or change the login class of existing users * There’s no KOI8 login class anymore, all KOI8 users will have to add a ‘custom’ KOI8 login class. If we add a new, ‘russian_utf8' login class: * New and existing users created without login class are unaffected; * New users created with the ‘russian’ class explicitly set will have KOI-8 encoding enabled; * New users created with the ‘russian_utf8’ class explicitly set will have UTF-8 encoding enabled; * Existing russian UTF8 users are unaffected * Existing KOI8-R users are unaffected * Login classes for both UTF8 and KOI8-R are available Am I missing something? -- ST4096-RIPEhelp
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