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Date:      Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:21:25 -0600
From:      Nikolas Britton <freebsd@nbritton.org>
To:        Giorgos Keramidas <keramida@ceid.upatras.gr>
Cc:        Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com>
Subject:   Re: Time to shut down this list?
Message-ID:  <41D311C5.7080400@nbritton.org>
In-Reply-To: <20041228154047.GA29577@gothmog.gr>
References:  <6587631D.5034AB43.0F75C5EC@netscape.net> <200412271330.05504@zaphod.softweyr.com> <200412271403.12158.krinklyfig@spymac.com> <20041228154047.GA29577@gothmog.gr>

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Giorgos Keramidas wrote:

>On 2004-12-27 14:03, Joshua Tinnin <krinklyfig@spymac.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>I realize that there is a certain personality to the lists, and the
>>people on FreeBSD's lists are more courteous than most (at least in my
>>experience), but how do you convince someone it's worth it to ignore
>>the noise? Moreover, I've found that most people in such a situation
>>don't want to ask the -questions list due to the traffic, although I
>>suppose it's always possible to post to the list without joining it.
>>    
>>
>
>The most important detail is the one you list near the end of this
>paragraph.  It is not obligatory to _subscribe_ to the freebsd-questions
>list to post a question there :-)
>
>There are no traffic problems when you just post a few messages in a
>single thread.
>
>I know that people are reluctant to post to -questions.  I just don't
>know why yet, but this is something that, in my opinion, _can_ be helped
>by the presence of the -newbies list.
>
>My relatively aggressive PR in favor of FreeBSD in the Linux companies I
>hang out with, has started to bear fruit.  Many people here in Patras
>have now heard about FreeBSD.  Some of them have also tried to use it
>for real work.  Most of them seem very reluctant to post to the
>-questions list though.
>
>I have had a few conversations with those who don't post to mailing
>lists and tried to discuss this reluctancy they seem to have.  One of
>the major causes of questions that remain unanswered is the fear of
>"asking stupid things".  Which is silly, but that's the way the guys
>I've talked with think.
>
>When I point out to them that, in fact, "there is no stupid question"
>and that they should do at least the following (in this order):
>
>	- Look at the existing FreeBSD documentation.
>	- Ask me for pointers to the existing documentation.
>	- Look at the documentation again.
>	- Search Google.
>	- Search the -questions archives.
>	- Post to -questions if all else fails.
>
>They always feel thankful for at least having a clear 6-step plan for
>troubleshooting.
>
>THIS is what a newbie needs most of the time.  Not the real details of
>setting up a firewall with PF or IPFILTER, not all the gory details of
>IP routing and network address translation, not even the delicate
>instructions for editing `inetd.conf' or even `rc.conf'.  Most of the
>time, the newbies I've had to deal with have questions that they don't
>know what to do about.  All they need is a pointer towards the docs or
>just a friendly pat in the back and a couple of kind words: "Oh, that's
>ok.  You should read the manpage of `inetd.conf'.  If you need more help
>with that, post to -questions, since I haven't ever tinkered with FOOBAR
>services myself".
>
>I think that -newbies should not provide technical answers, detailed and
>fancy as -questions.  But it may make a huge difference, when people
>don't know what to do about some problem they have, by providing exactly
>this sort of guidance: a mini summary of what can and should be done.
>
>The rest of the time, we can brag about our accomplishments as usual
>(which, admittedly, happens very rarely these days) :-)
>
>- Giorgos
>
>  
>

I think I understand why they are overwhelmed now. There not using 
message filters, everything is just flowing into there main inbox (as 
well as there normal email), This would overwhelm me too.



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