Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2024 07:54:47 -0600 From: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> To: "Rodney W. Grimes" <freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Cc: Ed Maste <emaste@freebsd.org>, Bertrand Petit <freebsd-hackers@phoe.frmug.org>, FreeBSD Hackers <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Removing "CMOS clock set to UTC" question Message-ID: <CANCZdfqnmXWO_1%2BrVD=jO6q56GMX4rt3r1WxkUrf_L4gL-Ck8A@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <202406131350.45DDobuA044814@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> References: <CAPyFy2D623nS=8DkXhA8Eg9ZvTW6BJv3sf79Rp13-keY_atT0w@mail.gmail.com> <202406131350.45DDobuA044814@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>
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--000000000000439877061ac5d8ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 13, 2024, 7:51=E2=80=AFAM Rodney W. Grimes < freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > On Wed, 12 Jun 2024 at 17:14, Bertrand Petit > > <freebsd-hackers@phoe.frmug.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > It is sad to see an option removed because "it confuse users"= . > > > > It's not only that it's confusing, it's that there is not much value > > in asking the question. > > > > > I agree > > > it is broken so we need to fix it: we should make the option's effect > obvious > > > so that anyone can understand it. I porpose that in place of asking > for a UTC > > > or local selection we query "what time is it?" instead. Two choices > would be > > > presented as (live) timestamps, each simultaneously showing the effec= t > of > > > UTC/local time CMOS setting would have later on the host's wall clock= . > The > > > task of the user is to select the option matching any external > reference he > > > sees fit. > > > > This is not the point of the question though -- once we have a > > timezone selected and the answer to the UTC question the installer > > prompts for the user to set the time; it doesn't really matter what it > > was before.. Despite being exactly what the question asks, it isn't > > really important whether the CMOS clock is currently set to UTC or > > local time. What the installer needs to know is whether the user wants > > the real-time CMOS clock to contain UTC or local time. > > You could use this data to present a time based on CMOS with and without > the TZ offset and derive the correct wall_cmos_clock value. > If you ask timezone first, you could ask the use if thise times are right. But if rtc is afu this won't help so you need a plan for that. Warner Please try to make things better, not just less confusing. > > > -- > Rod Grimes > rgrimes@freebsd.org > > --000000000000439877061ac5d8ca Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"auto"><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" = class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 13, 2024, 7:51=E2=80=AFAM Rodney W. Grimes= <<a href=3D"mailto:freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net">freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dn= smgr.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D= "margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">> On Wed= , 12 Jun 2024 at 17:14, Bertrand Petit<br> > <<a href=3D"mailto:freebsd-hackers@phoe.frmug.org" target=3D"_blank= " rel=3D"noreferrer">freebsd-hackers@phoe.frmug.org</a>> wrote:<br> > ><br> > ><br> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0It is sad to see an option remov= ed because "it confuse users".<br> > <br> > It's not only that it's confusing, it's that there is not = much value<br> > in asking the question.<br> > <br> > > I agree<br> > > it is broken so we need to fix it: we should make the option'= s effect obvious<br> > > so that anyone can understand it. I porpose that in place of aski= ng for a UTC<br> > > or local selection we query "what time is it?" instead.= Two choices would be<br> > > presented as (live) timestamps, each simultaneously showing the e= ffect of<br> > > UTC/local time CMOS setting would have later on the host's wa= ll clock. The<br> > > task of the user is to select the option matching any external re= ference he<br> > > sees fit.<br> > <br> > This is not the point of the question though -- once we have a<br> > timezone selected and the answer to the UTC question the installer<br> > prompts for the user to set the time; it doesn't really matter wha= t it<br> > was before.. Despite being exactly what the question asks, it isn'= t<br> > really important whether the CMOS clock is currently set to UTC or<br> > local time. What the installer needs to know is whether the user wants= <br> > the real-time CMOS clock to contain UTC or local time.<br> <br> You could use this data to present a time based on CMOS with and without<br= > the TZ offset and derive the correct wall_cmos_clock value.<br></blockquote= ></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">If you ask timez= one first, you could ask the use if thise times are right. But if rtc is af= u this won't help so you need a plan for that.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><= br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Warner=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><d= iv dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blo= ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #c= cc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Please try to make things better, not just less confusing.<br> <br> <br> -- <br> Rod Grimes=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:rgrimes@freebsd.org= " target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">rgrimes@freebsd.org</a><br> <br> </blockquote></div></div></div> --000000000000439877061ac5d8ca--
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