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Date:      Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:09:14 -0700
From:      John Armstrong <siberian@siberian.org>
To:        "'freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org'" <freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   RE: What to tell to Linux-centric people?!
Message-ID:  <v04210117b3c245336f1e@[216.112.76.84]>
In-Reply-To:  <C1F3617BDC52D21185E40000214C247C154075@id-bucharest.idsrom.com>
References:   <C1F3617BDC52D21185E40000214C247C154075@id-bucharest.idsrom.com>

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<YAWN>

I personally use freebsd BECAUSE it doesn't have all the lame bells=20
and whistles. Everyone I know uses freebsd for this reason. Even my=20
desktop freebsd box is a bit sparse. For the most part, I think this=20
is the general freebsd culture. Linux culture mostly consists of=20
ex-Windows users who like the color and the flash and the sound and=20
the general garishness of the Windows operating system but in a KrAd=20
UNIX environment. NOTE : That was an 'Extreme Generalization', I=20
understand this.

=46reeBSD is an awesomely stable and tough OS. I do not want to play=20
CIV:CTP on my FreeBSD machine, nor do I need colors to make me=20
understand permissions and I really do not need little noises going=20
off when I occasionally do use X-Windows. What my company needs is=20
solid performance with a known development path and unified support=20
structure.

This is a cultural issue, not an ego issue. I am all for putting an=20
option in the install process to make things more comfortable for=20
linux users but defaulting to bells and whistles will chase away the=20
users that use freebsd to do workhorse tasks.  Just as when you=20
install FreeBSD it says 'Do you want to configure this as an NFS=20
server?' 'Do you want to configure this as an NFS client' etc we may=20
want to have it say 'Would you like me to install Tools familiar to=20
Linux users?'

But please, no defaults.

John-

At 7:55 PM +0300 7/26/99, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote:
> > The reason people are getting mad at you is that you have been told
> > from the beginning that what linuxapps or whatever does is the
> > equivalent they *at last* implemented of our Ports, and still
> > inferior to boot, but you just DON'T F*CKING LISTEN.
> >
>
>This isn't really something which would matter, anyway [ls-color, that is].
>Which means is the mentality [I'd say, stubbornnes] of *YOUR COMMUNITY* [as
>to quote you; please read "FreeBSD community"].
>
>If FreeBSD is something free, not commercial, nobody with a common sense
>will not claim technical support or anything else [though he might get some
>very useful support from the community]. However... this doesn't mean that
>the FreeBSD community [not to mention the freebsd-advocacy list!] should
>have such an egocentric attitude! And... an anti-marketing one, I'd say! If
>you wanna chase users away from *BSD, please go on... OK, it's free, so you
>don't do it for money. But [even if you're hating GPL, like I do] do you
>want to make it just for yourself, or for serving...hmmm... the humanity?
>
>It's understandable that you, people which contributed in essential ways to
>FreeBSD development, are proud of that. However, you haven't made that
>system only for you!Being better than Linux in many ways doesn't mean that
>users SHOULD LIKE what you like, and never have another opinion, because yo=
u
>don't want to hear it. Microsoft partially does this way. Linux, doesn't, a=
s
>far as I can see.
>
>I'm afraid Unix gurus don't have much sense of marketing [neither do I, but
>this has nothing to do with the topic]. But you must agree you should have
>_some_ marketing open-mindness! When you're writing your Resum=E9, you're n=
ot
>telling how good you are, you're telling to put it in a way easily
>understandable by those stupid recruiters ;-) right?
>
>Think about it.
>
>Again: I hate these "religious" wars! But... I'm not sure that Linux-people
>started this. I think FreeBSD community has too much... how do you say for
>the French "orgueil"?
>
>Radu
>
>
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