Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 12:05:48 +1000 From: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au> To: "leegold" <goldtech@worldpost.com> Cc: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG> Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view Message-ID: <023e01bffcef$594cc550$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> References: <DBB3921EFE2AD211A81500A0C9B5FE760579452C@msg04.scana.com> <06a801bffc9d$73c1a9c0$1600010a@pmr.com> <014e01bffcb8$7d46fed0$847e03cb@ROADRUNNER> <002401bffcdf$7c2f89a0$0adf7ad1@beefstew>
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Yeah for sure ..... I've got a heap of FreeBSD gateway boxes running around the city, ranging from neanderthal Wang 386's to a relatively modern dual P100 and the things just keep on trucking. However the headaches resulting from attempts to make sense of ANY existing documentation when I'm trying to figure out something new are something else again !!!!. I for one am reluctant to setup anything in FreeBSD for a business client unless I've already understood the issue sufficiently well that I have written my own docs. There's no way one can install / configure something unfamiliar & be confident it will work, and no way to guarantee of prompt feedback from the already over-committed list regulars. When one is under pressure to get the thing working like yesterday its usually more expedient to resort to a different solution .... even if its less robust, at least the office girl can be trained to hit the "reset" button. If I had my choice (and money wasn't an issue) I'd probably have all my office clients running Solaris 8 / StarOffice, but the realities are that "everyone knows Win98 / MS Office", its relatively cheap, and hitting "re-set" occasionally doesn't always wreck it :) The fact that its somewhat of an unpedigreed canine is another issue ... it does the job. for How on earth anyone seriously expects "real world" consultants to recommend FreeBSD to their clients is beyond me. ----- Original Message ----- From: "leegold" <goldtech@worldpost.com> To: "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au> Cc: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG> Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 10:12 AM Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view > Exactly. I was just at some bookstores today - it's amazing the ever > increasing documentation on Linux. But nary a FreeBSD book on the shelves. I > have went so far as to buy Linux books (eg. by Kofler ) because they cover > intro. concepts well. > > Still, I've been taking the propellorheads word though, that FreeBSD is > "THE" OS for setting up one's own domain - that it's "THE" internet OS, I > have seen some hacker/cracker pages explictly stating FreeBSD is ( when > config. properly ) is a tough nut to crack ie. secure. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Doug Young <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au> > To: Steve Fagan <sfagan@pmr.com>; <msilver@sc.rr.com>; > 'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org' <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG> > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 3:32 PM > Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view > > > > I'm totally in favour of regular folks writing HOWTO docs, could never > > understand > > the logic of giving the job to propellorheads who write stuff that only > > others of their ilk can comprehend. For some reason there appears to be a > > taboo in FreeBSD against "step by step" instructions > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Fagan" <sfagan@pmr.com> > > To: <msilver@sc.rr.com>; "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" > > <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG> > > Cc: "'Doug Young'" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au> > > Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 2:19 AM > > Subject: Re: new books, changing my pt. of view > > > > > > > Check out http://www.mostgraveconcern.com/freebsd > > > > > > One site I like. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "SILVER, MICHAEL A" <MSILVER@scana.com> > > > To: "'freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org'" <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG> > > > Cc: "'Doug Young'" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 11:10 AM > > > Subject: RE: new books, changing my pt. of view > > > > > > > > > > I couldn't agree more. > > > > > > > > >My point was / is that there's nothing wrong with the reliability of > > > > FreeBSD, > > > > >however its badly lacking in usable "how to get blah working in 5 > > steps" > > > > >type documentation. If that issue could be properly resolved it would > > > > certainly > > > > >challenge Solaris / SCO etc The manual & Complete FreeBSD still lack > a > > > > >heap of the essential details needed to get stuff working quickly > .... > > to > > > > get > > > > >something unfamiliar working one has to read disjointed bits of this > & > > > bits > > > > of > > > > >that, attempt to piece the lot together so its halfway intelligible, > > then > > > > >post heaps of questions to the list and hope someone has been down > the > > > > exact > > > > >same road recently and remembers how to solve the issue. That's maybe > > OK > > > > >for hackers with unlimited resources of time, but its not practical > for > > > > businesses > > > > >who just need the thing working yesterday. > > > > > > > > You have hit the nail on the head. I have heard profressional UNIX > > > > programmers complain about this same thing. > > > > > > > > I wonder if this gap could not be filled by a well designed web site. > > > > Basically a 'What is' and 'How to' database. For example, if you > wanted > > > to > > > > set up a firewall, search for 'firewall', and a list of the available > > > > packages would be displayed with detailed layman descriptions of each > > with > > > > advantages and disadvantages, home web sites, and most importantly, > step > > > by > > > > step setup instructions and maybe some troubleshooting guidliness > pulled > > > > from past messages. This would help 1) in finding the appropriate > > package > > > > for a given situation, and 2) in setting it up, which is always the > > > hardest > > > > part. The instructions would have to written to the lowest common > > > > denomenator (like me). > > > > > > > > Let me know what you think about this. Perhaps it already exists??? > If > > > > not, it may be time for us 'newbies' to step up to the plate. > > > > > > > > ...Michael... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
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