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Date:      Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:23:07 +0200
From:      Alexander Leidinger <netchild@FreeBSD.org>
To:        "M. Warner Losh" <imp@bsdimp.com>
Cc:        wb@freebie.xs4all.nl, phk@phk.freebsd.dk, src-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org, cvs-src@FreeBSD.org
Subject:   Re: cvs commit: src/etc Makefile sensorsd.conf src/etc/defaults rc.conf src/etc/rc.d Makefile sensorsd src/lib/libc/gen sysctl.3 src/sbin/sysctl sysctl.8 sysctl.c src/share/man/man5 rc.conf.5 src/share/man/man9 Makefile sensor_attach.9 src/sys/conf files ...
Message-ID:  <20071018112307.pkb8qmn8ao4cog80@webmail.leidinger.net>
In-Reply-To: <20071018.013827.-749244202.imp@bsdimp.com>
References:  <52235.1192653371@critter.freebsd.dk> <20071018091134.jzo7m88374ow00c8@webmail.leidinger.net> <20071018.013827.-749244202.imp@bsdimp.com>

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Quoting "M. Warner Losh" <imp@bsdimp.com> (from Thu, 18 Oct 2007 =20
01:38:27 -0600 (MDT)):

> There are people doing high precision timing applications with FreeBSD
> today.  I'm one of them.  Sensors for phase time differences are like
> pounding a screw with a hammer.  Sure, it looks like it works and
> often time it works well enough for the application.  But closer
> inspection shows the item constructed lacks structural integrity.
> There's all kinds of different nuances that need to be considered when
> doing high precision real-time timing systems.  The current time
> difference sensor interface in OpenBSD just doesn't cut it.

Warner, I already stated much earlier in the thread that I don't see a =20
benefit in providing time via the sensors framework, as we already =20
have a better API for this (I'm not a high precision time keeping guy, =20
and I've seen the advantage of what we have even before Poul talked =20
about this, as I know about the time related possibilities FreeBSD =20
offers). I also said earlier that we don't have to have all OpenBSD =20
sensors in FreeBSD, it depends upon the policy we use for sensors.

All of this complains about specific sensors are not a technical =20
reason to object to the framework itself. If Poul would have said that =20
Constantine shall make sure that there's text in sensible places that =20
explain that we have a better API in FreeBSD for time and that this =20
API shall be used instead of the sensors framework, than that would =20
have been OK for me (I even would have supported Poul, as I clearly =20
see it as a step back for us to use the sensors framework for time). I =20
even asked for technical reasons, but he didn't provide them. I asked =20
for them already weeks/months ago, when Poul was objecting against the =20
idea of the sensors framework, but he didn't gave them. So it is not =20
some days in which Poul didn't came up with technical reasons against =20
the idea/framework, but weeks/months.

When he objects to some specific sensors, great! Finally a technical =20
argument! After Poul repeatedly was saying for a too long time that =20
the idea is that bad that he doesn't even look at the framework, I'm =20
happy that he provides technical arguments now! But I have to say, =20
that the technical arguments he presented so far are about small parts =20
in the framework which should be polished, but nothing which makes the =20
framework look like the "crap" Poul said in this thread. He came up =20
with some buzzwords like ACPI and IPMI to prove his non technical =20
points against the framework he presented so far, and he was =20
told/shown that those work just nicely with this framework.

If it is not clear, I don't write all those mails to defend each line =20
of code in the sensors framework. I write all those mails because I =20
object to Pouls way of complaining without technical arguments (not =20
that he presented invalid technical arguments, no, he wasn't even =20
willing to present technical arguments at all in the beginning) that =20
he showed for a long time in this thread. If this info is new to =20
someone reading this, he should read all my mails again with this =20
information again.

If someone wants to talk about technical stuff... great, I'm sure =20
Constantine will discuss them with him.

If someone wants to support Poul in his raid against the _idea_ of the =20
framework _without_ providing technical arguments against the _idea_, =20
this person can discuss this with me until I have to go to the =20
hospital next week and after I'm back a week or so later (I'm also not =20
available at the weekend, sorry).

Bye,
Alexander.

--=20
http://www.Leidinger.net  Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID =3D B0063FE7
http://www.FreeBSD.org     netchild @ FreeBSD.org  : PGP ID =3D 72077137
To say you got a vote of confidence
would be to say you needed a vote of confidence.
=09=09-- Andrew Young




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