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Date:      Wed, 22 Sep 2021 14:45:18 -0700
From:      Chris <bsd-lists@bsdforge.com>
To:        Marek Zarychta <zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl>
Cc:        Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>, John Baldwin <jhb@freebsd.org>, Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@freebsd.org>, FreeBSD Current <current@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root
Message-ID:  <5a4cdaefd2fb38097adf597d411fe924@bsdforge.com>
In-Reply-To: <41db45d4-42bf-8ef9-a2b8-6ffb8ff6aacb@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl>
References:  <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> <82d7f4d1-5ce9-c7ed-d993-b16b3ddac6e3@FreeBSD.org> <CANCZdfoQyZY%2B2FCQAKUDVy4qRMT-if8xaEXZ5m0U9ih3DdiZUw@mail.gmail.com> <41db45d4-42bf-8ef9-a2b8-6ffb8ff6aacb@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl>

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On 2021-09-22 12:26, Marek Zarychta wrote:
> W dniu 22.09.2021 o 19:46, Warner Losh pisze:
>> On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 9:35 AM John Baldwin <jhb@freebsd.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>> 
>>>> TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!!
>>>> 
>>>> For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be
>>> confusing
>>>> as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne
>>> shell
>>>> compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh.
>>>> 
>>>> Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in
>>>> interactive mode:
>>>> * command completion (thanks pstef@)
>>>> * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other
>>> shells
>>>> * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect
>>> $EDITOR)
>>>> * support for history as described by POSIX.
>>>> 
>>>> This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to
>>> propose to
>>>> make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not
>>> MFCed)
>>>> 
>>>> If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make
>>> this
>>>> proposal happen.
>>>> 
>>>> Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE!
>>> 
>>> I think this is fine.  I would also be fine with either removing 'toor'
>>> from the
>>> default password file or just leaving it as-is for POLA.  (I would 
>>> probably
>>> prefer removing it outright.)
>>> 
>> 
>> I think this is also fine. I also think we should remove toor from the
>> default
>> password file for one fewer attack surfaces. I strongly prefer this. Users
>> that want toor can add it to their system and/or provisioning scripts.
>> 
>> Warner
>> 
> 
> I am curious which attacks you are referring to since I have never heard
> of attacks on toor account. I have seen a lot of malware attacking root,
> admin, nobody, and other accounts, but never toor.
In the 30 some yrs I've been on UNIX and the likes. I've only ever known
~half a dozen administrators that ever choose toor. Those that want to
continue doing so, will not be prevented from continuing to do so.
> 
> TBH toor might be handy as a backdoor account if you are familiar with
> FreeBSD enough to take advantage of it. It can also act as an account of
> last resort when someone breaks into your system and changes root
> password, wipes ssh keys etc, so it cuts both ways, not even mentioning
>  POLA.
TBH this is a non-issue. toor is simply an alias to root.
Anyone that has a root hacked system need only spin up the FreeBSD mini
iso/img, mount their hacked system && hack back into shape. :-)

Props to all the work and proposed changes here. Thanks! :-)

--Chris

P.S. This is NOT a bike shed.
> 
> The transition from csh to sh as a default root's shell will probably
> save some CPU cycles for people using Chef, Ansible, etc thus pushing
> FreeBSD toward green computing. Sysadmins bound to csh will be fine
> until it remains in the base system and chsh works.
> 
> I shouldn't probably post here since I am only a voice from the userbase
> but can't help doing so.
> 
> Kind regards,

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