Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 13:16:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Greco <jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com> To: jsuter@bsd.intrastar.net (Jacob Suter) Cc: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Telco/NAPs Message-ID: <199608161816.NAA16050@brasil.moneng.mei.com> In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.91.960816114937.3031A-100000@bsd.intrastar.net> from "Jacob Suter" at Aug 16, 96 12:28:21 pm
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> I've meen noticing that quite a few people from BSDNET #freebsd, and the
> whole ISP world in general seem to love the LD Telcos that have decided
> to become Network Access Providers. I'm beginning to wonder if the rays
> from the 21" monitors are starting to get to ya'll...
>
> Putting speed aside (I would be really concerned if I was in the OC-3
> market, but I seriously doubt most of us here are), the telcos want to be
> our competition for the most part.... Would you buy your upstream
> connection from your existing competitior? Hell no!
Eh, why not? (Assuming all other things are equal, which they often are)
The very concept of the Internet is based on the concept that discrete
entities choose to interconnect their networks. If you start refusing to
connect with people who are 'competition', pretty quickly the list can grow
so large in scope that you have eliminated every available candidate for an
upstream connection.
See, we purchase connectivity through a well-connected local ISP, Internet
Connect. (Great folks, incidentally). Some of my customers in turn
provide ISP services to their clients. Whether or not Internet Connect
chose to do business with us is irrelevant; we would be here and we would
be connected SOMEWHERE and we would still be "competition" to them. So if
they choose to turn down our $NNN/month, they gain nothing, and we go to
another provider and pay $MMM/month. They are simply out the $NNN.
There is no advantage in either refusing to provide connectivity for your
competition, or to refrain from buying connectivity from your competition.
An ISP's selling point must be that they can do it and do it better than
the other guy. This is going to become clear very rapidly to a lot of
ISP's in the next few years.
Now, there may be VERY valid technical or political reasons to avoid
buying from your competition. If you get a contract from MCI and you've
failed to lock in a rate, that could well be a bad thing. If you are not
confident in your upstream provider's technical competence, that is an
outstanding risk. But everything being equal, if you are just worried
about the "competition" thing, why NOT buy from them, if it makes sense to
do so from every other angle?
> Am I missing something here? Are the telcos offering free service or
> something for ya'll?
>
> I'm gonna be disgruntled when/if we all get taken out of business by the
> telcos that you all helped pay for...
Hate to burst your bubble, but the telcos have always been involved. They
provide the data circuits that carry a vast majority of the Internet's
traffic. Buy a T1. Who do you get it from? A telco. Buy a T3. Who do
you get it from? Probably a telco. Buy a {phone line, ISDN line, 56k
line}. Same thing.
It has become mildly more complex in the last few years, true.
The telcos are now offering "Internet" service so that you are not just
purchasing bandwidth to a provider from them, you are also purchasing your
connectivity from them in their role as a provider. It is generally
cheaper for a telco to do this - there is often less wire involved.
A PtP T1 from here to a location 5 miles away may cost $500, plus I may pay
that location (an ISP) $1000/month for bandwidth. The phone company may be
able to live me a local loop T1 for half that price (CO is relatively close)
and economies of scale allow them to sell bandwidth for less, and they often
get a break on their interconnecting / outbound pipes because it is a cost
that can be largely internalized.
On the other hand, the local cable companies can do the same thing now...
and in some areas, they are. In others, they are at least providing fiber
connectivity services.
May you always live in interesting times. ;-)
... JG
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