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Date:      Tue, 26 May 2026 17:46:07 +0900
From:      Takashi Shimizu <qqyr7xx9k@shirt.ocn.ne.jp>
To:        Ronald Klop <ronald-lists@klop.ws>
Cc:        freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Proposal: Improve BE naming convention in freebsd-update install
Message-ID:  <62e4616f-e616-4339-9870-ba6f269ecfa9@shirt.ocn.ne.jp>
In-Reply-To: <1676824497.1245.1779783892574@localhost>
References:  <70da0c5b-c865-44e9-8c19-abb1cd779efe@shirt.ocn.ne.jp> <1676824497.1245.1779783892574@localhost>
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[-- Attachment #1 --]

On 5/26/26 17:24, Ronald Klop wrote:
>
> *Van:* Takashi Shimizu <qqyr7xx9k@shirt.ocn.ne.jp>
> *Datum:* zondag, 24 mei 2026 13:53
> *Aan:* freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
> *Onderwerp:* Proposal: Improve BE naming convention in freebsd-update 
> install
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I've read the rest of the thread also but reply on this one as it 
> keeps the context of your question.
> Bectl does not tell the user how to name the "active" BE. You can see 
> which is active by the |NR| parameters.
>
> You probably activated |15.0-RELEASE-p8_2026-05-21_183216| yourself in 
> the past and then it sticks with that name. Because that is the BE you 
> choose.
> If you want it to have another name, you can easily rename it yourself 
> on your system.
>
> |bectl rename 15.0-RELEASE-p8_2026-05-21_183216 HEAD|
>
> After the next run of freebsd-update you will have a new timestamped 
> BE, but the active and updated one will still be named HEAD. 🥳
>
> NB: Renaming a BE can give issues when using zfs send | zfs receive to 
> a backup system. As the names on the backup didn't change, the ZFS 
> filesystems+snapshots on the backup are out of sync now.
>
> Regards,
> Ronald.

Thank you for the suggestion.

However, my proposal is not about how users name their BEs manually. It 
is specifically about the names that freebsd-update generates automatically.

The target audience is users who do not actively manage their BEs and 
are not familiar with bectl. When something goes wrong after a 
freebsd-update run and they need to roll back urgently, they look at 
bectl list and have to figure out which BE to activate. At that moment, 
the automatically generated names are misleading and cost them valuable 
time.

Users who carefully manage their own BEs, as you describe, are already 
handling this well and are not affected by this proposal.

Takashi

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    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/26/26 17:24, Ronald Klop wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:1676824497.1245.1779783892574@localhost">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
       
      <p><strong>Van:</strong> Takashi Shimizu
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:qqyr7xx9k@shirt.ocn.ne.jp">&lt;qqyr7xx9k@shirt.ocn.ne.jp&gt;</a><br>
        <strong>Datum:</strong> zondag, 24 mei 2026 13:53<br>
        <strong>Aan:</strong> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:freebsd-stable@freebsd.org">freebsd-stable@freebsd.org</a><br>
        <strong>Onderwerp:</strong> Proposal: Improve BE naming
        convention in freebsd-update install</p>
      <br>
      <span style="font-family:verdana,geneva,sans-serif;">Hi,<br>
        <br>
        I've read the rest of the thread also but reply on this one as
        it keeps the context of your question.<br>
        Bectl does not tell the user how to name the "active" BE. You
        can see which is active by the <code>NR</code> parameters.<br>
        <br>
        You probably activated <code>15.0-RELEASE-p8_2026-05-21_183216</code>
        yourself in the past and then it sticks with that name. Because
        that is the BE you choose.<br>
        If you want it to have another name, you can easily rename it
        yourself on your system.<br>
        <br>
        <code>bectl rename 15.0-RELEASE-p8_2026-05-21_183216 HEAD</code><br>
        <br>
        After the next run of freebsd-update you will have a new
        timestamped BE, but the active and updated one will still be
        named HEAD. 🥳<br>
        <br>
        NB: Renaming a BE can give issues when using zfs send | zfs
        receive to a backup system. As the names on the backup didn't
        change, the ZFS filesystems+snapshots on the backup are out of
        sync now.<br>
        <br>
        Regards,<br>
        Ronald.</span><br>
       </blockquote>
    <br>
    <p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]">Thank
      you for the suggestion.</p>
    <p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]">However,
      my proposal is not about how users name their BEs manually. It is
      specifically about the names that freebsd-update generates
      automatically.</p>
    <p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]">The
      target audience is users who do not actively manage their BEs and
      are not familiar with bectl. When something goes wrong after a
      freebsd-update run and they need to roll back urgently, they look
      at bectl list and have to figure out which BE to activate. At that
      moment, the automatically generated names are misleading and cost
      them valuable time.</p>
    <p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]">Users
      who carefully manage their own BEs, as you describe, are already
      handling this well and are not affected by this proposal.</p>
    <p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]">Takashi</p>
  </body>
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