Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:03:46 -0500 From: Pete Ehlke <pde@rfc822.net> To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Java (was: Re: bsd daemon chick wallpaper??) Message-ID: <20030618200346.GA32693@rfc822.net> In-Reply-To: <20030618205957.60223a73.flynn@energyhq.es.eu.org> References: <3EF061D9.7000609@potentialtech.com> <200306181612.KAA21256@lariat.org> <20030618165119.GA31988@rfc822.net> <3EF0A086.6000103@potentialtech.com> <20030618173637.GB32151@rfc822.net> <3EF0A88A.6040002@potentialtech.com> <20030618180737.GA32363@rfc822.net> <20030618205957.60223a73.flynn@energyhq.es.eu.org>
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On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 08:59:57PM +0200, Miguel Mendez wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:07:37 -0500
> Pete Ehlke <pde@rfc822.net> wrote:
>
> > "An 11 Mb RSS and 10 second startup time just to say 'Hello world'.
> > That's not too bad, really, is it?"
>
> I know you're joking here, but java shines in the server side in cases
> where cpu is hardly the bottleneck. Or do you write your business
> middleware in C? As I got into the subject, java has gotten a bad image
> partly thanks to abominations like Swing. Those who have played or
> used those nifty java interfaces like the Volume Manager UI or
> Forte for java will surely know what I'm talking about. Extremely slow
> interfaces that love crashing. I'm not really a big java fan myself, but
> it has its place, and it's not in the desktop IMHO.
>
I'm only kidding a little. As a production/ops person, I've come, over
the past five years, to loathe and fear anyone who says "oh, we can do
that in java pretty easily". I've seen at least a dozen wheels
reimplimented, badly, in java. Java FTP clients that only work with
Sun's ftpd. Java logfile parsers. (WHY? perl isn't an efficient text
parser?) cronolog (100 Kb RSS) replaced with a set of java processes
that do *exactly* the same thing (450 Mb RSS), *simply* because it's
java.
And what is it about people whose first language is java that makes them
think that
cd to /usr/local/stuff/java/classes/java/jar/1.1/jar/ and run
./foobar, then cd to
/usr/local/otherstuff/java/classes/java/jar/2.4/servers and run
./server to start the FooBarServer (you *have* to be in those
directories when you start the processes)
to be acceptable instructions to an ops staff?
And if you can read
http://www.javaworld.com/javaqa/2003-05/02-qa-0523-version.html and
still say that java is an environment that's robust enough to write 911
systems or XRay machine controllers in, I want to talk to you about a
bridge I have for sale.
java is a neat idea. It's just gotten hyped way out of proportion to
what it's actually useful for.
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