Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2022 00:48:35 +0100 From: Yuri <yuri@aetern.org> To: "Dan Mahoney (Ports)" <freebsd@gushi.org> Cc: Ian Smith <smithi@nimnet.asn.au>, Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de>, "Kevin P. Neal" <kpn@neutralgood.org>, Steve O'Hara-Smith <steve@sohara.org>, "questions@freebsd.org" <questions@FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: 12.4 disc 1 iso is really large Message-ID: <3FDAA730-5328-4076-8E98-21D074F77BC8@aetern.org> In-Reply-To: <30F66AE4-985D-48E1-8EE7-DE4FF712CB75@gushi.org> References: <4AC6140B-2927-46C4-8405-18FA872DEAB5@gushi.org> <20221209050452.40918a6bcccb953c197ecec6@sohara.org> <Y5QPnrqluEtgLrNn@neutralgood.org> <20221210072243.9109d9c9.freebsd@edvax.de> <6B0B7DD7-8562-4E77-8809-768DB6E8ADFC@nimnet.asn.au> <30F66AE4-985D-48E1-8EE7-DE4FF712CB75@gushi.org>
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--Apple-Mail=_8C6C0224-1F02-4641-8958-AFA772A414C6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On 10. 12. 2022., at 23:58, Dan Mahoney (Ports) <freebsd@gushi.org> = wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Dec 10, 2022, at 11:47 AM, Ian Smith <smithi@nimnet.asn.au> wrote: >>=20 >> On 10 December 2022 5:22:43 pm AEDT, Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de = <mailto:freebsd@edvax.de>> wrote: >>=20 >>> On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 23:48:30 -0500, Kevin P. Neal wrote: >>=20 >>>> On Fri, Dec 09, 2022 at 05:04:52AM +0000, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >>=20 >>>>> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 22:58:01 -0600 >>>>> "Dan Mahoney (Ports)" <freebsd@gushi.org> wrote: >>=20 >>>>>> All, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I=E2=80=99m just noticing that the standard FreeBSD iso is some = 959 >>> megs: >>>>>>=20 >>> = http://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/ISO-IMAGES/12.4/FreeBSD-12.4-R= ELEASE-amd64-disc1.iso >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Is there something in the release notes that basically implies >>> we no >>>>>> longer expect people to burn things to actual discs? >>=20 >>>>> You need a DVD - it's been some time since it fitted on a CD >>> <sigh> >>>>> I still remember doing installs from floppies. >>=20 >>>> So... what's the point of the "disc1" image that today requires a >>> DVD if >>>> there's also a "dvd" image made to be burned to a DVD? >>=20 >>> I've been asking this ("complaining about it") in the past. >>> As it seems, the regular 650 MB / 700 MG size of a CD can >>> no longer hold a FreeBSD installation... which is strange, >>> because if it would be possible to reduce the amount of >>> packages (!) on the disc, it would be suitable for use >>=20 >> Sorry, but there are no packages at all on disc1, or the equivalently = sized memstick. Only the dvd1 image has any packages, 932 in ~2.2GB=20 >>=20 >>> with CD media again, as it was in the past: The classic >>> "4 CDs approach" of older FreeBSD versions contained: >>>=20 >>> CD #1 with system installation and _some_ packages >>>=20 >>> CD #2 with a live system >>>=20 >>> CDs #3 and #4 with all other packages >>>=20 >>> So CD #1 could always be used to install a working OS, and >>> you could also install some packages (like X, Midnigh Commander, >>> joe, vim, and other useful stuff). For the ultimate selection >>> of packages, discs #3 and #4 would be used (if needed), ot >>> the installation could continue via Internet. However, a >>> complete offline installation was possible. >>=20 >> Indeed. Trev Roydhouse used to mail me his hand-me-down 4 CD Walnut = Creek sets; we had 2.0.5 (?), 2.2.6 which enabled the nimnet.asn.au = <http://nimnet.asn.au/>; server in '98, later 3.something, 4.5 ... >>=20 >> OTOH that was an AMD 586 140MHz box with 2GB RAM and a 4GB hdd, later = 20GB, with CDR later CD-RW, with 1 dialout and 3 dialup modems. >>=20 >> Nostalgia ain't what it used to be. >>=20 >> I've been working on retrieving the offline install possibility for = months, and managed with some tricks and patches to get 'bsdconfig = packages' working on the 12.3 dvd1 image to install X, KDE and some = utilities, all offline - but it's considered a weird thing to want to do = these days ... what "third world connectivity"? >>=20 >>> Strange thing: The "bootonly" and "minimal install" images >>> intended for use with USB media _could_ fit on a CD. >>=20 >> Still can, bootonly.iso is ~355MB, mini-memstick is ~360MB. >>=20 >> But full installers, even without any packages, really can't; = everything has swollen that much. Here are sizes >1MiB on (amd64) = disc1: >>=20 >> 2 /bin >> 2 /etc >> 3 /var >> 8 /sbin >> 13 /lib >> 156 /boot >> 812 /usr >> 993 / >>=20 >> 3 /usr/libexec >> 19 /usr/sbin >> 20 /usr/lib >> 40 /usr/bin >> 127 /usr/share >> 605 /usr/freebsd-dist >> 812 /usr >>=20 >> /usr/freebsd-dist has, all as .txz: >> tests 13 >> kernel 44 >> ports 45 >> lib32 62 >> kernel-dbg 83 >> src 171 >> base 191 >> total 605MB >=20 > I still rely on booting from CD on a regular basis. There are USB = cdroms in all my datacenters, and =E2=80=9Cburn an iso to disc=E2=80=9D = still feels way more useful to tell remote hands how to do than trying = to explain how to image an iso onto a memory stick (which can vary based = on formatting and OS). >=20 > Much as I love my idracs, at the day job we still have a number of = older systems limping along doing Important Internet Things where that = reinstall use-case matters. (How I got them all upgraded to current = versions of FreeBSD may be my BSDCan talk). >=20 > CDs are still the lowest common denominator. >=20 > Not all of the above freebsd-dist files are equal. You need kernel = and base to get a running system. Everything else can be gotten later. >=20 > Ports basically requires an active internet connection to build = anything =E2=80=94 putting it on the disc is largely pointless. = Portsnap is in base. >=20 > Src is outdated as soon as it=E2=80=99s extracted in most cases, and = user education as to =E2=80=9Chere=E2=80=99s how you get the source if = you need it=E2=80=9D would serve us better. >=20 > Kernel-dbg is also not the kind of thing most people are going to need = without having net access, but I could see if being useful for doing = things like bringing up new boards, lab systems, special configurations. >=20 > So =E2=80=94 if we eliminated src, and just started teaching people = that if you want to build things from src, you should get them from git, = or the src.tar.xz on the ftp site, things would still fit easily for a = while to come. Agreed on ports and src just eating up the space on ISO without any real = purpose; however kernel-dbg is useful to have meaningful backtraces in = case of problems (and not much use for working on new hardware without = src), users should be strongly advised to have it installed IMO.= --Apple-Mail=_8C6C0224-1F02-4641-8958-AFA772A414C6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">On 10. 12. = 2022., at 23:58, Dan Mahoney (Ports) <freebsd@gushi.org> = wrote:<br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta charset=3D"UTF-8"><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, = 0); font-family: Iosevka-Light-Extended; font-size: 13px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: = Iosevka-Light-Extended; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: = none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><div>On Dec 10, 2022, at 11:47 AM, Ian Smith = <smithi@nimnet.asn.au> wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><span style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">On 10 = December 2022 5:22:43 pm AEDT, Polytropon <</span><a = href=3D"mailto:freebsd@edvax.de" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: = 0px;">freebsd@edvax.de</a><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">> = wrote:</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;">On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 23:48:30 -0500, Kevin P. Neal = wrote:<br></blockquote><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Fri, Dec 09, 2022 at 05:04:52AM = +0000, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote = type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 22:58:01 = -0600<br>"Dan Mahoney (Ports)" <freebsd@gushi.org> = wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><br style=3D"caret-color:= rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">All,<br><br>I=E2=80=99m just noticing that the standard = FreeBSD iso is some = 959<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>megs:<br><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>http://ftp.freebs= d.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/ISO-IMAGES/12.4/FreeBSD-12.4-RELEASE-amd64-disc= 1.iso<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br>Is there something in the release notes that basically = implies<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>we no<br><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">longer = expect people to burn things to actual = discs?<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote = type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" = style=3D"white-space: pre;"> </span>You need a DVD - it's been some = time since it fitted on a = CD<br></blockquote></blockquote><sigh><br><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I still remember doing installs = from floppies.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote = type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">So... what's the point of the "disc1" image that today = requires a<br></blockquote>DVD if<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">there's = also a "dvd" image made to be burned to a = DVD?<br></blockquote></blockquote><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, = 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;">I've been asking this ("complaining about it") in the past.<br>As = it seems, the regular 650 MB / 700 MG size of a CD can<br>no longer hold = a FreeBSD installation... which is strange,<br>because if it would be = possible to reduce the amount of<br>packages (!) on the disc, it would = be suitable for use<br></blockquote><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, = 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Sorry, = but there are no packages at all on disc1, or the equivalently sized = memstick. Only the dvd1 image has any packages, 932 in ~2.2GB<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote = type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">with CD media = again, as it was in the past: The classic<br>"4 CDs approach" of older = FreeBSD versions contained:<br><br><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" = style=3D"white-space: pre;"> </span>CD #1 with system installation = and _some_ packages<br><br><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" = style=3D"white-space: pre;"> </span>CD #2 with a live = system<br><br><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: = pre;"> </span>CDs #3 and #4 with all other packages<br><br>So CD #1 = could always be used to install a working OS, and<br>you could also = install some packages (like X, Midnigh Commander,<br>joe, vim, and other = useful stuff). For the ultimate selection<br>of packages, discs #3 and = #4 would be used (if needed), ot<br>the installation could continue via = Internet. However, a<br>complete offline installation was = possible.<br></blockquote><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Indeed. = Trev Roydhouse used to mail me his hand-me-down 4 CD Walnut Creek = sets; we had 2.0.5 (?), 2.2.6 which enabled the<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a = href=3D"http://nimnet.asn.au/" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: = 0px;">nimnet.asn.au</a><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;"><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>server in '98, later = 3.something, 4.5 ...</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">OTOH = that was an AMD 586 140MHz box with 2GB RAM and a 4GB hdd, later 20GB, = with CDR later CD-RW, with 1 dialout and 3 dialup modems.</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">Nostalgia ain't what it used to = be.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none; float: none; display: inline !important;">I've been working on = retrieving the offline install possibility for months, and managed with = some tricks and patches to get 'bsdconfig packages' working on the 12.3 = dvd1 image to install X, KDE and some utilities, all offline - but it's = considered a weird thing to want to do these days ... what "third world = connectivity"?</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;">Strange thing: The "bootonly" and "minimal install" = images<br>intended for use with USB media _could_ fit on a = CD.<br></blockquote><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Still can, bootonly.iso = is ~355MB, mini-memstick is ~360MB.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">But = full installers, even without any packages, really can't; everything has = swollen that much. Here are sizes >1MiB on (amd64) = disc1:</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none; float: none; display: inline !important;">2 = /bin</span><br style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">2 = /etc</span><br style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">3 = /var</span><br style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">8 = /sbin</span><br style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">13 = /lib</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">156 = /boot</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none; float: none; display: inline !important;">812 /usr</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">993 /</span><br style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">3 = /usr/libexec</span><br style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">19 = /usr/sbin</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">20 = /usr/lib</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">40 = /usr/bin</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">127 = /usr/share</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none; float: none; display: inline !important;">605 = /usr/freebsd-dist</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">812 = /usr</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none; float: none; display: inline !important;">/usr/freebsd-dist has, = all as .txz:</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none; float: none; display: inline !important;">tests = 13</span= ><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none; float: none; display: inline !important;">kernel = 44</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">ports = 45</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">lib32 = 62</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">kernel-dbg 83</span><br style=3D"caret-color:= rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">src = 17= 1</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none; float: none; display: inline !important;">base = 191</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">total 605MB</span><br style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"></div></blockquote><div style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Iosevka-Light-Extended; font-size: 13px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br></div><div = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Iosevka-Light-Extended; = font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;">I still rely on booting from CD on a regular basis. There = are USB cdroms in all my datacenters, and =E2=80=9Cburn an iso to = disc=E2=80=9D still feels way more useful to tell remote hands how to do = than trying to explain how to image an iso onto a memory stick (which = can vary based on formatting and OS).</div><div style=3D"caret-color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Iosevka-Light-Extended; font-size: 13px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br></div><div = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Iosevka-Light-Extended; = font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;">Much as I love my idracs, at the day job we still have a number = of older systems limping along doing Important Internet Things where = that reinstall use-case matters. (How I got them all upgraded to = current versions of FreeBSD may be my BSDCan talk).</div><div = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Iosevka-Light-Extended; = font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><br></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Iosevka-Light-Extended; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;">CDs are still the lowest common = denominator.</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Iosevka-Light-Extended; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><br></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, = 0); font-family: Iosevka-Light-Extended; font-size: 13px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;">Not all of the above freebsd-dist files are = equal. You need kernel and base to get a running system. = Everything else can be gotten later.</div><div style=3D"caret-color:= rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Iosevka-Light-Extended; font-size: 13px; = font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br></div><div = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Iosevka-Light-Extended; = font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;">Ports basically requires an active internet connection to build = anything =E2=80=94 putting it on the disc is largely pointless. = Portsnap is in base.</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Iosevka-Light-Extended; font-size: 13px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><br></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, = 0); font-family: Iosevka-Light-Extended; font-size: 13px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;">Src is outdated as soon as it=E2=80=99s = extracted in most cases, and user education as to =E2=80=9Chere=E2=80=99s = how you get the source if you need it=E2=80=9D would serve us = better.</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Iosevka-Light-Extended; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><br></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, = 0); font-family: Iosevka-Light-Extended; font-size: 13px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, = 0);">Kernel-dbg is also not the kind of thing most people are going to = need without having net access, but I could see if being useful for = doing things like bringing up new boards, lab systems, special = configurations.</span></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Iosevka-Light-Extended; font-size: 13px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, = 0);"><br></span></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Iosevka-Light-Extended; font-size: 13px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;">So =E2=80=94 if we eliminated src, and just = started teaching people that if you want to build things from src, you = should get them from git, or the src.tar.xz on the ftp site, things = would still fit easily for a while to = come.</div></div></blockquote><br></div><div>Agreed on ports and src = just eating up the space on ISO without any real purpose; however = kernel-dbg is useful to have meaningful backtraces in case of problems = (and not much use for working on new hardware without src), users should = be strongly advised to have it installed IMO.</div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_8C6C0224-1F02-4641-8958-AFA772A414C6--
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