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Date:      Thu, 21 Oct 2021 11:16:23 -0600
From:      Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org>
To:        Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@freebsd.org>, Emmanuel Vadot <manu@bidouilliste.com>
Cc:        Slawa Olhovchenkov <slw@zxy.spb.ru>, src-committers@freebsd.org, dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org, dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: git: 225639e7db68 - main - vt: Disable bell by default
Message-ID:  <5df6d661f6bbc4952398a1c6f1f2d6a36fae2cc2.camel@freebsd.org>
In-Reply-To: <YXGe%2BoW8rgm1CKwE@FreeBSD.org>
References:  <202110190738.19J7cFtw067994@gitrepo.freebsd.org> <20211019112132.GC80160@zxy.spb.ru> <20211019133700.77c0ca7ac488eb99df50551b@bidouilliste.com> <20211020095206.GA77338@zxy.spb.ru> <20211020134237.17596440e1fabda5d40f6985@bidouilliste.com> <YXBNqdMe2y1bJj43@FreeBSD.org> <20211021094000.58097dbece05fcd445aa3d87@bidouilliste.com> <YXGe%2BoW8rgm1CKwE@FreeBSD.org>

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On Thu, 2021-10-21 at 10:10 -0700, Gleb Smirnoff wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 09:40:00AM +0200, Emmanuel Vadot wrote:
> E> > E> sane default that most users agrees on in base FreeBSD. If
> you don't
> E> > E> agree with the defaults we have a way to change them.
> E> > 
> E> > To me this looks like abuse of committer priveleges. I got
> commit bit,
> E> > so I can change the defaults.
> E> 
> E>  Oh common ...
> 
> This is not the answer I'd like to hear. :(
> 
> I'd rather hear why your opinion matters more than for example
> Slawa's.
> 
> E>  Except that FreeBSD doesn't include drm drivers or graphical env
> by
> E> default so the first thing that a user (new or not) have to deal
> with
> E> is vt(4). So they will login, do a bunch of command to configure
> the
> E> machine and will probably use tab for completion, and what will
> they
> E> hear when multiple commands are possible ? The bell. What will
> they
> E> hear if they try to go left or right in the shell and arrive at
> one of
> E> the ends ? The bell. And they will hear it in a bunch of other
> E> situation.
> 
> So the problem is that we are forcing people to go through painful
> graphics setup, rather than in the bell.
> 
> E>  Again it's clearly user preference and as you can see I really
> hate
> E> this bell. I'm sure that more people than the one who answered
> this
> E> commit like the bell but the question is do more people wants it
> on be
> E> default or not ?
> E>  The non-scientific method that is twitter seems to agree with me
> E> (https://twitter.com/FreeBSDHelp/status/1450955125002887170).
> E>  So, do we really want to make a poll so users can vote on what to
> do
> E> with a freaking bell ???
> 
> Well, if you put it like that, I can compose a 100% symmetrical
> answer:
> 
> As you see I really LOVE the bell. And I'm looking forward to upgrade
> my desktop past your commit and expecting my BELOVED bell to be
> turned
> off. Just like you, I hate idea of tweaking configuration, I want it
> ON
> by default as it used to be from the beginning of times. Unlike
> Slawa,
> I got commit bit, so I can go and turn it back on.
> 
> So, yeah, looks like creating a poll about a precious bell could be a
> solution of this dispute.
> 

I can't believe this conversation is still going on.

It's not 1983 anymore.  We don't use TTY devices that simply stop and
overwrite the last position on a line repeatedly if you write too many
characters without a return, so we don't need an audible alarm to warn
us of that condition.

I agree 100% with whoever said earlier something like: POLA cannot be a
reason for blocking every change.  This change makes sense in the
modern world.  For the few people (and I'm sure it is a VERY few
people) left who like the noise, there is an option to keep hearing it.
Can we just move on?

-- Ian





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