Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2021 11:16:23 -0600 From: Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org> To: Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@freebsd.org>, Emmanuel Vadot <manu@bidouilliste.com> Cc: Slawa Olhovchenkov <slw@zxy.spb.ru>, src-committers@freebsd.org, dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org, dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org Subject: Re: git: 225639e7db68 - main - vt: Disable bell by default Message-ID: <5df6d661f6bbc4952398a1c6f1f2d6a36fae2cc2.camel@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <YXGe%2BoW8rgm1CKwE@FreeBSD.org> References: <202110190738.19J7cFtw067994@gitrepo.freebsd.org> <20211019112132.GC80160@zxy.spb.ru> <20211019133700.77c0ca7ac488eb99df50551b@bidouilliste.com> <20211020095206.GA77338@zxy.spb.ru> <20211020134237.17596440e1fabda5d40f6985@bidouilliste.com> <YXBNqdMe2y1bJj43@FreeBSD.org> <20211021094000.58097dbece05fcd445aa3d87@bidouilliste.com> <YXGe%2BoW8rgm1CKwE@FreeBSD.org>
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On Thu, 2021-10-21 at 10:10 -0700, Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 09:40:00AM +0200, Emmanuel Vadot wrote: > E> > E> sane default that most users agrees on in base FreeBSD. If > you don't > E> > E> agree with the defaults we have a way to change them. > E> > > E> > To me this looks like abuse of committer priveleges. I got > commit bit, > E> > so I can change the defaults. > E> > E> Oh common ... > > This is not the answer I'd like to hear. :( > > I'd rather hear why your opinion matters more than for example > Slawa's. > > E> Except that FreeBSD doesn't include drm drivers or graphical env > by > E> default so the first thing that a user (new or not) have to deal > with > E> is vt(4). So they will login, do a bunch of command to configure > the > E> machine and will probably use tab for completion, and what will > they > E> hear when multiple commands are possible ? The bell. What will > they > E> hear if they try to go left or right in the shell and arrive at > one of > E> the ends ? The bell. And they will hear it in a bunch of other > E> situation. > > So the problem is that we are forcing people to go through painful > graphics setup, rather than in the bell. > > E> Again it's clearly user preference and as you can see I really > hate > E> this bell. I'm sure that more people than the one who answered > this > E> commit like the bell but the question is do more people wants it > on be > E> default or not ? > E> The non-scientific method that is twitter seems to agree with me > E> (https://twitter.com/FreeBSDHelp/status/1450955125002887170). > E> So, do we really want to make a poll so users can vote on what to > do > E> with a freaking bell ??? > > Well, if you put it like that, I can compose a 100% symmetrical > answer: > > As you see I really LOVE the bell. And I'm looking forward to upgrade > my desktop past your commit and expecting my BELOVED bell to be > turned > off. Just like you, I hate idea of tweaking configuration, I want it > ON > by default as it used to be from the beginning of times. Unlike > Slawa, > I got commit bit, so I can go and turn it back on. > > So, yeah, looks like creating a poll about a precious bell could be a > solution of this dispute. > I can't believe this conversation is still going on. It's not 1983 anymore. We don't use TTY devices that simply stop and overwrite the last position on a line repeatedly if you write too many characters without a return, so we don't need an audible alarm to warn us of that condition. I agree 100% with whoever said earlier something like: POLA cannot be a reason for blocking every change. This change makes sense in the modern world. For the few people (and I'm sure it is a VERY few people) left who like the noise, there is an option to keep hearing it. Can we just move on? -- Ian
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