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Date:      Thu, 2 Oct 2025 11:06:06 -0700
From:      Mark Millard <marklmi@yahoo.com>
To:        ziaee@freebsd.org, dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org
Subject:   RE: git: 2ed9833791f2 - main - thunderbolt: Import USB4 code [more explicit note now that Thunderbotl 3 is mentioned]
Message-ID:  <51FCEFDE-7112-4C60-AE63-77E814967A63@yahoo.com>
References:  <51FCEFDE-7112-4C60-AE63-77E814967A63.ref@yahoo.com>

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Alexander Ziaee <ziaee_at_FreeBSD.org> wrote on
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2025 15:38:02 UTC :

> The branch main has been updated by ziaee:
>=20
> URL: =
https://cgit.FreeBSD.org/src/commit/?id=3De4e412e45a17d2f63f6693d41b274379=
d108c82f
>=20
> commit e4e412e45a17d2f63f6693d41b274379d108c82f
> Author: Alexander Ziaee <ziaee@FreeBSD.org>
> AuthorDate: 2025-10-02 15:27:43 +0000
> Commit: Alexander Ziaee <ziaee@FreeBSD.org>
> CommitDate: 2025-10-02 15:37:12 +0000
>=20
> thunderbolt.4: Mention Thunderbolt 3
>=20
> MFC after: 1 hr
> Reported by: emaste
> Fixes: 2f7a796b590e (thunderbolt.4: Initial manual)
> ---
> share/man/man4/thunderbolt.4 | 2 +-
> 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)
>=20
> diff --git a/share/man/man4/thunderbolt.4 =
b/share/man/man4/thunderbolt.4
> index 3477c11fb60d..fd7cb1f3f338 100644
> --- a/share/man/man4/thunderbolt.4
> +++ b/share/man/man4/thunderbolt.4
> @@ -14,7 +14,7 @@
> .Sh HARDWARE
> The
> .Nm
> -driver supports USB4 controllers.
> +driver supports Thunderbolt 3 and USB4 controllers.

USB4 V1 and V2 both have a Chapter 13, "Interoperability
with Thunderbolt(tm) 3 systems" that "describes the
additional requirements for a Router that supports
TBT3-compatible interoperability". Also:

"When interoperating with a TBT3 product, Thunderbolt
Alt Mode is established on the link between products.
The USB Type-C Specification describes how a USB4
product negotiates and enters Thunderbolt Alt Mode."

Quoting USB4 V2: "A USB4 Host or USB4 Peripheral Device can
optionally support interoperability with Thunderbolt 3
(TBT3) products."

Quoting USB4 V1: "A USB4 host or USB4 peripheral device can
optionally support interoperability with Thunderbolt 3
(TBT3) products."

Given this context,

=
https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/dev-commits-src-main/2025-September/036=
033.html

had written:

QUOTE
For context, older TB chips implemented the connection manager in
firmware (ICM) instead of in the OS (HCM), but maintaining the ICM
code would be a huge burden for not many chips.
END QUOTE

That seems to leave out at least some "Thunderbolt 3
controllers".

It had been my impression that the above meant not meeting
the full USB4 V1 or V2 criteria for claiming the optional
support of Thunderbolt 3 inoperability by the USB4 V1 or V2
chapter 13 criteria and possibly material elsewhere in USB4
V1 and or V2 or in USB Type-C Specification's Thunderbolt
Alt Mode material.

May be the implication is interoperability with only some
types of Thunderbolt 3 contexts but not meeting the official
criteria for the range of USB4 Thunderbolt 3 support?

My impressions are definitely not those of an expert. This
seems to be an area where implications of loose statements
are not clearly traceable to clear answers, unfortunately.


Another area of note: Being explicit about USB4 V2 vs.
USB4 V1 likely is important. It seems that in some ways
V2 has dropped some V1 criteria in ways that simplify
some things, although I'm not sure how much that applies
to hosts. A non-host example is USB4 V2 Dock's do not
need their upstream facing port to support
"TBT3-compatibility" but USB4 V1 requires that support.

> .Sh HISTORY
> The
> .Nm


=3D=3D=3D
Mark Millard
marklmi at yahoo.com




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