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Date:      Sat, 13 Jun 1998 22:31:12 -0700
From:      Tim Gerchmez <fewtch@serv.net>
To:        Nik Clayton <nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk>, Donald Burr <dburr@POBoxes.com>, DrAcO <XDrAcOX@mci2000.COM>
Cc:        newbies@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Installing X-Windows
Message-ID:  <3.0.5.32.19980613223112.007e1270@mx.serv.net>
In-Reply-To: <19980613111334.15162@nothing-going-on.org>
References:  <3.0.5.32.19980613015739.007e36a0@mx.serv.net> <3581B36E.C76B5891@mci2000.COM> <XFMail.980612200212.dburr@POBoxes.com> <3.0.5.32.19980613015739.007e36a0@mx.serv.net>

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At 11:13 AM 6/13/98 +0100, you wrote:

>> Also of mention in FreeBSD is xdm, a windows manager that can help
>> integrate several different X-clients.  
>
>xdm isn't a window manager.

Well, true.  Let me restate.  It's a Window Manager manager.  Better?  

Actually, my exact words were that it's a "windows" manager (emphasis on
the 's' at the end of windows), which is somewhat more true in that it
manages X-windows clients (what I was trying to say in the first place).

>At its simplest, xdm is a graphical replacement
>for getty and login, letting you log in to X straight away, with no 
>intermediate console login

How would you set it up to do that, if *root* has to log in first via the
console to start it?  I know this isn't the place for questions, but I'm
asking you (Nik) personally.  Email me the answer personally, if you have it.

>and then having to type 'startx' (or whatever
>you use), although it can do more than that.

Some of the things *I* like about it as a newbie: 

* It passes pertinent info onto any client it starts, so I don't have to
worry about $DISPLAY (which isn't set at all on my system for some reason)
and the fact that just about anything I run that's graphical other than the
default X stuff says "Can't open display."  As a newbie, this problem has
been hounding me since I first installed FreeBSD.  I've tried passing 0.0,
0.1, :0.0, :0.1, :0, :1, :2, :3 (ad infinitum), unix:0.0, $DISPLAY,
$DAMNITJUSTF%$#&*#RUN, anything else you can think of to graphical
programs, and STILL the only graphical program that can find and open the
display is xinit and the built in X stuff set up in XF86Config.  I would
prefer to AVOID the login/password stuff altogether in xdm, and really need
something other than xdm, but I'm using it for what uses I can get out of
it, that is, overcoming a problem I'm having right now getting anything
graphical other than the built in FreeBSD X client to run.

* It overcomes the problem I'm *beginning* to have remembering the names of
all the X clients I have installed :-)

* I like the idea in the future of setting up my system to be graphical
from start to finish (the 'real' main purpose of xdm).

>> For those that haven't, try typing xdm while logged on as root (only 
>> root can use it).  
>
>Nope. It's meant to be started by root, probably as one of the things in
>/etc/rc.local (there's a FAQ question about this).

My mistake, only root can START it, that's what I meant (not that only root
can USE it once it's going).  Sorry I wasn't clear on that.

>That's the point. xdm is managing your login, so when you quit X xdm thinks
>you've logged out, and throws up another login prompt.

Yah, I know, but for someone who just uses it as a program to manage
multiple clients, it gets to be annoying and I get to wishing that behavior
could be disabled.  There should be a way to turn that behavior off, or
someone should write an alternative, simpler program that just functions as
a graphical X-client integrator, using the system defaults to start up with
like xdm does.

>It's less useful on a single user workstation (unless you *know* that 
>you're going to be running X as soon as your computer finishes booting,
>in which case you may as well use it, and put a pretty picture on the
>"Login" background :-) )

I don't agree.  I use it to integrate multiple X clients (I haven't settled
on one yet by a LONG shot.  I don't want to have to remember the names and
parameters of all the various X clients I play with, and xdm is good for
making that easier.

Anyway, I've said my piece on all this.  *For me*, xdm is very useful on my
desktop, as it integrates all my X clients.  My attitude on what it
does/can do/supposed to be used for is "take what I want/need and leave the
rest."  I could care less about its abilities as a login manager, I'm a
single user who would actually prefer no security whatsoever and a DOS-like
bootup into FreeBSD (what does a single-user, one person system in a *HOME*
need a login/password for, anyway?), and the chooser is the most important
aspect of it for me.  Fair enough?



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