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Date:      Fri, 9 Feb 2001 19:25:23 -0500
From:      "webmaster" <visionquest223@yahoo.com>
To:        "Sue Blake" <sue@welearn.com.au>, "Yong Lim" <yong@csfi.com>
Cc:        "Rick Hamell" <hamellr@heorot.1nova.com>, "SILVER, MICHAEL A" <MSILVER@scana.com>, <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   Re: Hello from russia!
Message-ID:  <004501c092f7$fab2e7a0$e1423bc0@northstarr1>
References:  <Pine.BSF.4.21.0102081221250.2710-100000@heorot.1nova.com> <NDBBLNEEEKNNPEMEDDDKGEGNCNAA.yong@csfi.com> <20010210095916.F19976@welearn.com.au>

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hear hear!


----- Original Message -----
From: "Sue Blake" <sue@welearn.com.au>
To: "Yong Lim" <yong@csfi.com>
Cc: "Rick Hamell" <hamellr@heorot.1nova.com>; "SILVER, MICHAEL A"
<MSILVER@scana.com>; <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: Hello from russia!


> On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 03:28:57PM -0500, Yong Lim wrote:
> > For newbies to subscribe to -questions, it
> > is very intimating.  I tried and after a few days I had to get out.
>
> Is freebsd-questions a problem? Then I suggest we deal with it directly.
> Using -newbies to do what -questions already does, or should
> do, is sweeping it under the carpet and making it worse.
> And if you do want some changes to freebsd-questions, once you've
> broken the ground rules for list charters you have a very wobbly
> leg to stand on.
>
> Would you like some FreeBSD gurus to decide what is
> wrong with your attitude to freebsd-questions? Or do you think
> your interests would be better served by discussion amongst
> newbies only, to outline the problems we have with -questions
> and try to find some real newbie-oriented solutions?
>
> Where do you think we could talk about that stuff, huh? Where?
> Where would we be allowed to? Where could we discuss newbie to newbie
> without some heavy pushing their point of view or blaming a newbie for
> their own distress? Where could we get something off our chest without
> shoving it in the face of the person whose error might have caused our
> difficulties?
>
> If we don't clutter freebsd-questions with chat, and don't ask
> or answer support questions here, they'll leave us alone. We
> have a "gentlemen's agreement" from most of the helpers that
> they'll keep their noses out of here and let us let off steam
> without any wrist slaps or non-newbie points of view. It's a
> deal that this list is based on, and most of the time everyone
> sticks to it without trouble. But note that freebsd-questions
> is the one and only central place for support questions and
> answers, no matter what level you think they are.
>
> But it's not working. We also agreed that if it didn't work
> we'd close freebsd-newbies down. If we do that, then don't ever
> even THINK of having space to find real solutions to any
> freebsd-questions issues as they arise without interference
> from people who think they know more about newbies than a
> real newbie. The best helpers on -questions openly state that
> they can't claim to know what newbies feel, and they support
> the idea of having this list to work it out among peers only.
> They might read sometimes, but they won't butt in. We always
> have a couple of people who won't play by the rules, though,
> at all levels, so watch out.
>
> You have a problem with freebsd-questions? Then you'd better bloody
> well fix it, together, before some misguided hyper-intelligent
> blinkered fool imposes their own 'fix' on you. Fixing starts with
> describing and defining the problem, then looking at the causes,
> options, etc. Only you people can do that, alone, on your own turf, and
> any hero who tries to help you will only make it worse. You must find a
> way to make freebsd-questions work for you, because nobody else can
> speak for you.
>
> Your choice. Work it out properly, your way, here, or shut up and wear it.
>
>
> PS
> I too would support the name change to freebsd-newbies-chat, as I
> recommended two years ago. At last feedback it didn't match the
> FreeBSD list naming format, and adjusting to a change would be a
> big job for very little return judging from the way newbies refuse
> to read or abide by list charters anyway. By your actions you can
> prove them wrong.
>
>
> --
>
> Regards,
>         -*Sue*-
>
>
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
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