Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 19:25:23 -0500 From: "webmaster" <visionquest223@yahoo.com> To: "Sue Blake" <sue@welearn.com.au>, "Yong Lim" <yong@csfi.com> Cc: "Rick Hamell" <hamellr@heorot.1nova.com>, "SILVER, MICHAEL A" <MSILVER@scana.com>, <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG> Subject: Re: Hello from russia! Message-ID: <004501c092f7$fab2e7a0$e1423bc0@northstarr1> References: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0102081221250.2710-100000@heorot.1nova.com> <NDBBLNEEEKNNPEMEDDDKGEGNCNAA.yong@csfi.com> <20010210095916.F19976@welearn.com.au>
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hear hear! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Blake" <sue@welearn.com.au> To: "Yong Lim" <yong@csfi.com> Cc: "Rick Hamell" <hamellr@heorot.1nova.com>; "SILVER, MICHAEL A" <MSILVER@scana.com>; <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 5:59 PM Subject: Re: Hello from russia! > On Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 03:28:57PM -0500, Yong Lim wrote: > > For newbies to subscribe to -questions, it > > is very intimating. I tried and after a few days I had to get out. > > Is freebsd-questions a problem? Then I suggest we deal with it directly. > Using -newbies to do what -questions already does, or should > do, is sweeping it under the carpet and making it worse. > And if you do want some changes to freebsd-questions, once you've > broken the ground rules for list charters you have a very wobbly > leg to stand on. > > Would you like some FreeBSD gurus to decide what is > wrong with your attitude to freebsd-questions? Or do you think > your interests would be better served by discussion amongst > newbies only, to outline the problems we have with -questions > and try to find some real newbie-oriented solutions? > > Where do you think we could talk about that stuff, huh? Where? > Where would we be allowed to? Where could we discuss newbie to newbie > without some heavy pushing their point of view or blaming a newbie for > their own distress? Where could we get something off our chest without > shoving it in the face of the person whose error might have caused our > difficulties? > > If we don't clutter freebsd-questions with chat, and don't ask > or answer support questions here, they'll leave us alone. We > have a "gentlemen's agreement" from most of the helpers that > they'll keep their noses out of here and let us let off steam > without any wrist slaps or non-newbie points of view. It's a > deal that this list is based on, and most of the time everyone > sticks to it without trouble. But note that freebsd-questions > is the one and only central place for support questions and > answers, no matter what level you think they are. > > But it's not working. We also agreed that if it didn't work > we'd close freebsd-newbies down. If we do that, then don't ever > even THINK of having space to find real solutions to any > freebsd-questions issues as they arise without interference > from people who think they know more about newbies than a > real newbie. The best helpers on -questions openly state that > they can't claim to know what newbies feel, and they support > the idea of having this list to work it out among peers only. > They might read sometimes, but they won't butt in. We always > have a couple of people who won't play by the rules, though, > at all levels, so watch out. > > You have a problem with freebsd-questions? Then you'd better bloody > well fix it, together, before some misguided hyper-intelligent > blinkered fool imposes their own 'fix' on you. Fixing starts with > describing and defining the problem, then looking at the causes, > options, etc. Only you people can do that, alone, on your own turf, and > any hero who tries to help you will only make it worse. You must find a > way to make freebsd-questions work for you, because nobody else can > speak for you. > > Your choice. Work it out properly, your way, here, or shut up and wear it. > > > PS > I too would support the name change to freebsd-newbies-chat, as I > recommended two years ago. At last feedback it didn't match the > FreeBSD list naming format, and adjusting to a change would be a > big job for very little return judging from the way newbies refuse > to read or abide by list charters anyway. By your actions you can > prove them wrong. > > > -- > > Regards, > -*Sue*- > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
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