Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:42:54 +0200 From: Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> To: ports <ports@freebsd.org>, emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Building a Linuxulator userland from source Message-ID: <CA%2B1FSijH2XxAS5O0F3h7jxhGFs048TYD6zqwByyE-Wcxq_zftw@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <fawky2wibrfhepv35e7zatnqgdkqjjmwbe7vsldqsbdmomyrnk@dj7fzyh2ufgd> References: <xcztahm3vu3bjghjqqxuoy2xabyjmyfq22jw6mkaaaqo7wa36s@fdq7dlvpuhlk> <20230822173454.458DB237@slippy.cwsent.com> <fawky2wibrfhepv35e7zatnqgdkqjjmwbe7vsldqsbdmomyrnk@dj7fzyh2ufgd>
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--000000000000901dd30603916c50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" It would be nice to try that tool that can hack / convert ./ add another layer (another linux distro inside the first one. I dont remember the name now. Il mer 23 ago 2023, 08:21 Felix Palmen <zirias@freebsd.org> ha scritto: > * Cy Schubert <Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com> [20230822 10:34]: > > Basically this would become another Linux distro, albeit a virtual one > > that runs under our Linuxulator. > > And also a pretty minimal one. Right now, I'm just building a truly > minimal userland (the GNU toolchain, openssl, GNU make/grep/sed/awk, GNU > coreutils and man-db) and working on putting together some sane USES for > that. > > > Avoiding discussion about packaging -- we can package this any way we > > wish -- how will this support software written for distro A, B, or C. > > For example, Red Hat software doesn't neccesarily run on SuSE or > > Ubuntu because shared library dependencies may be different. > > > > Building our own "distro" to run under the Linuxulator may require a > > complete set of packages and end-user applications because existing > > Linux software may require a Fedora, Debian or Red Hat library. > > Wouldn't this negate the need for a Linuxulator because a person can > > build most Linux software to run on native FreeBSD. > > Well first, when I ask why "Linuxulator" is needed, the answer in my > head is: Mostly for closed-source Linux software. Because exactly as you > say, anything else should better be ported and built to run natively on > FreeBSD, if possible. > > Now, maybe I'm looking at the wrong software? In my experience with > closed-source Linux Software, sure, it *might* offer > distribution-specific packages, but almost always offers a plain binary > tarball as well. The latter could easily be used to create a port (like > was done in the past as well in our tree), and then it's just a question > of adding ports for the (hopefully few) shared libraries needed by this > software. > > > I think a better path might be to support multiple Linux userlands in > > parallel. Thus a user could simply copy or install vendor software for > > a Red Hat in one environment and a SuSE vendor software in another. > > This would be the consequence if you really want to support > distribution-specific software packages. I don't think it's feasible in > practice, at least it would make it very hard to still have ports of > Linux software (like my makemkv port), these would need to build and run > with any of these userlands. > > To challenge my source-based approach, I'm looking for "proof of > concept" closed-source software to try get running with it, I'll > probably start with makemkv because I already maintain that port. Open > to suggestions what else to test there. In the end, getting to run e.g. > Google Chrome would be perfect, but I imagine this requires creating a > lot of ports for shared libs first. > > Cheers, Felix > > -- > Felix Palmen <zirias@FreeBSD.org> {private} felix@palmen-it.de > -- ports committer -- {web} http://palmen-it.de > {pgp public key} http://palmen-it.de/pub.txt > {pgp fingerprint} 6936 13D5 5BBF 4837 B212 3ACC 54AD E006 9879 F231 > --000000000000901dd30603916c50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"auto">It would be nice to try that tool that can hack / convert= ./ add another layer (another linux distro inside the first one. I dont re= member the name now.</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" c= lass=3D"gmail_attr">Il mer 23 ago 2023, 08:21 Felix Palmen <<a href=3D"m= ailto:zirias@freebsd.org">zirias@freebsd.org</a>> ha scritto:<br></div><= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">* Cy Schubert <<a href=3D"mailto:Cy.Schube= rt@cschubert.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">Cy.Schubert@cschuber= t.com</a>> [20230822 10:34]:<br> > Basically this would become another Linux distro, albeit a virtual one= <br> > that runs under our Linuxulator.<br> <br> And also a pretty minimal one. Right now, I'm just building a truly<br> minimal userland (the GNU toolchain, openssl, GNU make/grep/sed/awk, GNU<br= > coreutils and man-db) and working on putting together some sane USES for<br= > that.<br> <br> > Avoiding discussion about packaging -- we can package this any way we<= br> > wish -- how will this support software written for distro A, B, or C.<= br> > For example, Red Hat software doesn't neccesarily run on SuSE or<b= r> > Ubuntu because shared library dependencies may be different.<br> > <br> > Building our own "distro" to run under the Linuxulator may r= equire a<br> > complete set of packages and end-user applications because existing<br= > > Linux software may require a Fedora, Debian or Red Hat library.<br> > Wouldn't this negate the need for a Linuxulator because a person c= an<br> > build most Linux software to run on native FreeBSD.<br> <br> Well first, when I ask why "Linuxulator" is needed, the answer in= my<br> head is: Mostly for closed-source Linux software. Because exactly as you<br= > say, anything else should better be ported and built to run natively on<br> FreeBSD, if possible.<br> <br> Now, maybe I'm looking at the wrong software? In my experience with<br> closed-source Linux Software, sure, it *might* offer<br> distribution-specific packages, but almost always offers a plain binary<br> tarball as well. The latter could easily be used to create a port (like<br> was done in the past as well in our tree), and then it's just a questio= n<br> of adding ports for the (hopefully few) shared libraries needed by this<br> software.<br> <br> > I think a better path might be to support multiple Linux userlands in<= br> > parallel. Thus a user could simply copy or install vendor software for= <br> > a Red Hat in one environment and a SuSE vendor software in another.<br= > <br> This would be the consequence if you really want to support<br> distribution-specific software packages. I don't think it's feasibl= e in<br> practice, at least it would make it very hard to still have ports of<br> Linux software (like my makemkv port), these would need to build and run<br= > with any of these userlands.<br> <br> To challenge my source-based approach, I'm looking for "proof of<b= r> concept" closed-source software to try get running with it, I'll<b= r> probably start with makemkv because I already maintain that port. Open<br> to suggestions what else to test there. In the end, getting to run e.g.<br> Google Chrome would be perfect, but I imagine this requires creating a<br> lot of ports for shared libs first.<br> <br> Cheers, Felix<br> <br> -- <br> =C2=A0Felix Palmen <zirias@FreeBSD.org>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0{private}= =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:felix@palmen-it.de" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D= "noreferrer">felix@palmen-it.de</a><br> =C2=A0-- ports committer --=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0{web}=C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://palmen-it.de" rel= =3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://palmen-it.de</a><br> =C2=A0{pgp public key}=C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://palmen-it.de/pub.txt" rel=3D= "noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://palmen-it.de/pub.txt</a><b= r> =C2=A0{pgp fingerprint} 6936 13D5 5BBF 4837 B212=C2=A0 3ACC 54AD E006 9879 = F231<br> </blockquote></div> --000000000000901dd30603916c50--
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