Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 20:20:15 -0400 From: "John W. O'Brien" <john@saltant.com> To: Maxim Sobolev <sobomax@freebsd.org> Cc: FreeBSD Ports <freebsd-ports@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Practice of "Sponsored by" in commit messages Message-ID: <7b14a5c4-7320-8f5e-b8c3-f49809caf9e5@saltant.com> In-Reply-To: <CAH7qZftNadmygyPNW9HNPWTY9kU6W7j-409CrV0XGk6ZYDQTug@mail.gmail.com> References: <ae2fe971-b20b-1fdf-48cd-58f595836c11@saltant.com> <CAH7qZfs8eNMkkeQ0eyV5AcapOCQFFL1fUiBDR1aM1875-Cy-Lg@mail.gmail.com> <3cc77471-4200-1f45-e83d-2ae4d636f4fa@saltant.com> <CAH7qZfu6j%2Bc-HpjHnwxyeQTKwX9DavN4iAzSpMO5Kjy9VJ2uHw@mail.gmail.com> <732c3f40-1765-6883-dbec-f5c77db8e30c@saltant.com> <CAH7qZftNadmygyPNW9HNPWTY9kU6W7j-409CrV0XGk6ZYDQTug@mail.gmail.com>
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This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --1CQLsHzuPyQgyL3eKHLDX02hCVUheRdqO Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="HJuvQcnkyzvQp2onCCxenCFmIDdSb4ZTl"; protected-headers="v1" From: "John W. O'Brien" <john@saltant.com> To: Maxim Sobolev <sobomax@freebsd.org> Cc: FreeBSD Ports <freebsd-ports@freebsd.org> Message-ID: <7b14a5c4-7320-8f5e-b8c3-f49809caf9e5@saltant.com> Subject: Re: Practice of "Sponsored by" in commit messages References: <ae2fe971-b20b-1fdf-48cd-58f595836c11@saltant.com> <CAH7qZfs8eNMkkeQ0eyV5AcapOCQFFL1fUiBDR1aM1875-Cy-Lg@mail.gmail.com> <3cc77471-4200-1f45-e83d-2ae4d636f4fa@saltant.com> <CAH7qZfu6j+c-HpjHnwxyeQTKwX9DavN4iAzSpMO5Kjy9VJ2uHw@mail.gmail.com> <732c3f40-1765-6883-dbec-f5c77db8e30c@saltant.com> <CAH7qZftNadmygyPNW9HNPWTY9kU6W7j-409CrV0XGk6ZYDQTug@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CAH7qZftNadmygyPNW9HNPWTY9kU6W7j-409CrV0XGk6ZYDQTug@mail.gmail.com> --HJuvQcnkyzvQp2onCCxenCFmIDdSb4ZTl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2018/05/17 19:36, Maxim Sobolev wrote: > Well, if your=C2=A0 employer feels=C2=A0 slighted it's for him to bring= it up with > you (see my previous rant on the amount and scope of the credit and who= > parties involved). And then for you to bring it up with me if you feel > brave enough. :) I don't see how and why FreeBSD project can help in > this highly hypothetical scenario by putting some rules around. Do we > have any real-world examples of this happening, bring me at least one > out of probably tents of thousands of times people used "Sponsored by" > in their commit messages. Just a single one, please! ) The FreeBSD project could help by asking committers to qualify "Sponsored by" lines to indicate which participant(s) is(are) sponsored, in way that is equivalent to the way that the actual work itself is customarily attributed. Examples showing this idea in action: r470149 | krion PR: 228292 [1], 227223 [2] Submitted by: maintainer [1], 0mp@ [2] [Interpretation: The maintainer did some work to prepare a patch, 0mp did some work to prepare a patch, and krion combined the patches and performed the commit.] r470018 | kan Reviewed by: jhb, bapt [Interpretation: kan prepared a patch, jhb and bapt reviewed it, kan committed it.] Examples where I perceive no problem: r470130 | truckman PR: 228172 Approved by: Leo Vandewoestijne <freebsd@dns.company> (maintainer) Sponsored by: Farsight Security, Inc. [Interpretation: truckman did the work on Farsight company time; Leo signed-off, but did little or no work, and either doesn't have a sponsor or chose not to credit the sponsor.] r469997 | mat PR: 228149 Reported by: Niels Bakker Sponsored by: Absolight [Interpretation: Niels called attention to a problem, but did little or no work on producing a patch, and either doesn't have a sponsor or chose not to credit the sponsor; mat did the work to produce a patch on Absolight company time.] Examples showing where improvement is needed: r469984 | dteske Reviewed by: mat (mentor; earlier version), imp (mentor), dbaio Approved by: imp (mentor) Sponsored by: Smule, Inc. Differential Revision: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D15415 [Uncertainty: Was the review by mat, imp, and dbaio all done on Smule company time? Doesn't mat work for Absolight? Maybe he was working on his own time for this one. Maybe acting as a mentor takes hardly any time. Possible improvements include "Sponsored by: Smule, Inc. (dteske)", or "Sponsored by: Smule, Inc. (dteske), Absolight (mat)", or..= =2E] r469709 | miwi PR: 228117 Submitted by: maintainer Sponsored by: iXsystems Inc. [Uncertainty: Does the maintainer work for iXsystems too? Did the sponsorship cover preparation of the patch or just the work to commit it? Possible improvements include "Sponsored by: iXsystems Inc. (miwi)", or "Sponsored by: iXsystems Inc. (miwi, maintainer)", or...] Are non-committer contributors entitled to specify sponsorship credits? Should I start requesting sponsorship credit under the name of my small, one-man consulting operation? If I do, would that discourage committers from taking my bugs who want to be able to credit their own employers for the commit? > On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 4:29 PM, John W. O'Brien <john@saltant.com > <mailto:john@saltant.com>> wrote: >=20 > On 2018/05/17 19:18, Maxim Sobolev wrote: > > John, no, not really, sorry. Work is done, credit is given. The f= orm and > > amount of this credit is between whoever does the work and whoeve= r is > > being credited. I don't see why is there any third-party to be in= volved > > in governing whether or not this credit is "appropriate", "suffic= ient" > > or "all encompassing" for the work in question. This is just a cr= edit, > > it does not affect the quality of work, nor the license (which is= > > 2-clause BSD) nor the copyright holder. Three things that really = matter > > long-time. So "Sponsored by" it's just the message on the t-shirt= , > > having only meaning to whoever produces the piece and whoever wea= rs it, > > but nothing in particular to the outside world. IMHO. >=20 > I fear that you and I are still not on the same page. The differenc= e > between a t-shirt and a commit message is that two or three or four= > people can all do work on the same commit, but only one person can = wear > a t-shirt. >=20 > Taking the analogy further, if you hang a t-shirt with your employe= r's > logo on a piece of work that you and I collaborated to produce, don= 't > you think my employer might feel slighted? What if I had done 80% o= f the > work? >=20 > > On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 3:43 PM, John W. O'Brien <john@saltant.co= m <mailto:john@saltant.com> > > <mailto:john@saltant.com <mailto:john@saltant.com>>> wrote: > >=20 > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 2018/05/14 20:14, Maxim Sobolev wrote: > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> What's wrong with a current practice. Why is= it of any concern to you, > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> John? Just curious that is not very clear fr= om your message. It is like > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> someone trying to moderate what people in ge= neral or some group in > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> particular (e.g. freebsd committers) are all= owed to put on their > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> t-shirts just because you find it offensive = or inappropriate. > >=20 > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I don't find crediting sponsors offensive nor = inappropriate. Quite the > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0contrary. What I find problematic is when mult= iple people do work, not > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0all with sponsorship or the same sponsorship, = and only one person's > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0sponsor is mentioned in a way that seems to im= ply that all the work was > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0sponsored. > >=20 > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0What I'm proposing is not to end or ban the pr= actice, but to improve and > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0refine it so that sponsors are credited for wh= at they sponsor and not > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0for what they don't sponsor. > >=20 > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Is that clearer? > >=20 > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> On Mon, May 14, 2018, 4:40 PM John W. O'Brie= n <john@saltant.com <mailto:john@saltant.com> <mailto:john@saltant.com > <mailto:john@saltant.com>> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> <mailto:john@saltant.com <mailto:john@saltan= t.com> > <mailto:john@saltant.com <mailto:john@saltant.com>>>> wrote: > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hello FreeBSD Ports, > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The Committer's Guide sec= tion on Commit Log Messages [0], > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0doesn't cover > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the use of the "Sponsored= by" key word. As a non-committer > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0contributor, > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0it only recently occurred= to me to wonder what work that > credit is > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0intended to represent, an= d whether some light definition > would be > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0helpful to reduce ambigui= ty. > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0When a committer credits = a sponsor of theirs, from which the > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0contributor > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0received no sponsorship, = the portrayal feels a little > awkward. > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Does this > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0strike the list as a prob= lem, and if so, how ought it be > solved? > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To make this concrete, al= low me to illustrate the situation. > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Alice, working on her own= time, prepares and contributes a > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0patch. Bob, > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0who works for Acme Corp, = reviews and commits the patch on > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0company time. > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The commit message includ= es "Sponsored by: Acme Corp". Alice > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0eagerly > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0awaits her check from Acm= e Corp. Should the commit message > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0have read > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"Sponsored by: Acme Corp = (Bob)"? > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This could be extensible = to multiple sponsorships. If, > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0instead, Alice > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0prepares the patch having= received a grant to do so from > Best > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sys Dev, > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the commit message could = state "Sponsored by: Acme Corp > (Bob), > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Best Sys > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Dev (Alice)". > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[0] > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0=C2=A0https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/co= mmitters-guide/article.html#commit-log-message > <https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/committers-gu= ide/article.html#commit-log-message> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0<https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/committ= ers-guide/article.html#commit-log-message > <https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/committers-gu= ide/article.html#commit-log-message>> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0PS: I realize that this i= ssue transcends ports, but it's not > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0clear where > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I should send this instea= d, and this list seems like it > would > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0have a > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0reasonably high concentra= tion of people with a stake in the > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0discussion. --=20 John W. 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