Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:43:43 +1000 From: Sue Blake <sue@welearn.com.au> To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: -newbies Message-ID: <20001014134341.D2537@welearn.com.au> In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0010121748330.23543-100000@heorot.1nova.com>; from Rick Hamell on Thu, Oct 12, 2000 at 06:07:32PM %2B0000 References: <39E7A882.6F1D21D4@acuson.com> <Pine.BSF.4.21.0010121748330.23543-100000@heorot.1nova.com>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
On Thu, Oct 12, 2000 at 06:07:32PM +0000, Rick Hamell wrote:
>
> Please Sue if you do read this, I
> respect you and the pain you went through to get this group created, I
> simply believe your orginal vision needs a swift kick to get it back where
> it belongs.
> Ultimatily, I guess it belongs in postmaster@freebsd.org's hands
> to make this choice. Does -newbies get a name change, stay the way it is,
> or get kicked out the door?
I am never very far away, but I'd rather see newbies work out issues
themselves. Spill your hearts here, your own kinda private and safe
place. One of the many functions of this mailing list is to orient
people to how the mailing lists and their community works, which
includes collaborating with PEERS. As equals.
There is no other mailing list where newbies can talk with their peers
without more experienced people butting in with their
experienced-biased views. I would deplore any infiltration by
know-it-alls who want to preach and correct the errors of thinking that
all newbies must work thorugh as part of learning, and I'm certainly
trying to refrain from doing so myself. (But people in the know about
policy, e.g. Nik's humble invitations to join the doc project and how it
works, are obviously welcome).
You have technical/how-to problems? The best thing IMO is to
work it out as well as you can first, and then post a neat summary to
freebsd-questions where others will find it in a mailing list search.
Other newbies can help you with the actual writing process if posting to
freebsd-questions is daunting, and then you post the question to -questions.
You have social/community/list-activity problems? Work it out among
yourselves. Write to me personally if you really think it needs the
voice of authority, and if necessary I'll tic tac with the postmaster
who has the final say in many list matters.
I don't believe you can learn a community well unless you are free to
make a few accidental mistakes, take risks, and not have to do so in
the presence of thousands of intimidating experts in the field. Nobody
minds someone who knows nothing of FreeBSD, but many of the most vocal
experienced people have very low tolerance for people who don't use the
FreeBSD lists as they are expected to. That's why I don't pounce hard
on genuine newbies abusing this list by accident. A gentle reminder and
pointer from a fellow newbie in a small group is hard enough to take as
it is. We don't want to scare people off, we want to help them fit in.
Besides, this is the only list which has any "voice of authority"
attached to it, and the idea is that with the reassurance of having me
around you'll be able to wean yourselves off that need.
Of course, none of this has anything remotely to do with how to install
or configure or fix something with FreeBSD itself. There are other
lists for newbies to go to for those things.
I've watched this list since its beginning, and as I expected there's
been very high and very low points. Such fluctuation would not be
tolerated on other lists but is necessary to this one. Indeed, the very
basis of freebsd-newbies is that it's for whatever is forbidden on
every other list, and nothing else.
Over that time I've also seen a small sub-community of newbies come
into existence, who gradually learned the (social) ropes and found just
the right ways to communicate that to their equals. Nobody but a newbie
can help a newbie without bringing shame to the sensitive ones among
us. Again, this is my opinion, many disagree strongly, and neither my
opinion nor theirs is valid when it comes down to it, because we're not
newbies.
Newbies should speak for newbies.
So far, overall, you lot have done pretty well for yourselves. Several
newbies have come here as absolute ratbags who might have been scolded
away from FreeBSD if it wasn't for the patience and support of their
newbie peers, then they've seen how it all works, learned to fit in,
and went on to become valued contributors to the FreeBSD Project.
Credit for that goes not to the list, but the people who belong to it.
I believe you can work this one out between you too, if the heavies leave
you alone in peace long enough to work out your own common views.
If you agreed on an idea that involves changes, let me know, and I'll
compare it to known history and give feedback, then see if it can be
fitted into the FreeBSD list requirements. Sometimes when it can't be
fitted in, I can make a special hole for it. Indeed, that is how this
discussion group came about in the first place. I assure you that now,
as earlier, I won't take much notice of what non-newbies claim to know
about newbies.
Good luck, have fun, be kind to each other, and call on me when you
think it is really necessary.
--
Regards,
-*Sue*-
To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?20001014134341.D2537>