Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 10:21:04 +0200 From: Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> To: Harry Schmalzbauer <freebsd@omnilan.de>, ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: git: 0668752 Revert "Framework: Introduce bsd.sponsor.mk" Message-ID: <088ebbb6-bd7f-4167-964f-9aa83d36c5e0@quip.cz> In-Reply-To: <aef95175-249f-4e77-877f-217e7c41e524@omnilan.de> References: <aef95175-249f-4e77-877f-217e7c41e524@omnilan.de>
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On 25/06/2024 09:39, Harry Schmalzbauer wrote: >> Revert "Framework: Introduce bsd.sponsor.mk" >> >> This reverts commit 274cd4df4dcce0a9aa78da47bb6e35ab3dbcbf8c > > > See also: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D44487 > > > In D44487#1014651, @mat wrote: > >> > >> but we want users to stop using ports and use packagesPiotr > Kubaj <pkubaj_at_anongoth.pl> wrote on > > This in fact *will force users into dependency hell like on Linux*. Pushing people to use packages sounds comical. Are we really talking about those packages that are not built at all, like Signal Desktop and many others? But I remain calm. We're still many years away from FreeBSD packages being where Linux packages have been for years. So anyone who wants a non-default version (PHP, Python, Perl...) still has to build their package set in Poudriere or use raw ports. > To use clear words: I dislike paternalism and general decisions made > under the hat of portmgr@ during the recent years. > There are plenty of Linux distributions doing it 'right' and making it > easy for 'the users'. > Please stop forcing FreeBSD into that direction - you will loose those > 'users' able and willing to dig deeper and improve/fix/extend software. > > There are portmgr@ people deleting foreign ports for no reason and now > _you_ decide that Gleb's bsd.sponsor.mk needs approval - Approval from > people who destroy one of the key principals of FreeBSD. > This is ridiculous. Users will need to approve portmgr@ decisions! Your > revert woulnd't get approval! > But better not to ask but to dictate of course. That way will allow > portmgr@ to continue dismantling FreeBSD from the inner. > > To return to the topic: > I liked the idea very much. > It is very important that skilled people are supported by their employer > to work on OpenSource projects, which directly or indirectly involves > FreeBSD. > Naming sponsors might attract more skilled people - not those looking > for arbitrary company paying them their bills, but those enthusiasts and > smart ones, who have chosen FreeBSD instead of any fancy Linux > distribution, because on FreeBSD it's much easier to participate or add > customization in a sensible and fertile manner. > ports/ was and still is a very important entrance. FreeBSD will decay if > it only has consumers! (and if ports/ is continued to be made > distracting users) > If there are only paid people left to do the work, FreeBSD won't > improve, simply because there will be much less creative, fresh and > individual ideas! This especially would harm FreeBSD since it hasn't > billions to spend just add human resources by try'n'error. > (Look at any commercial software product after 10 years evolution with > paid people - now name ONE, which is better today than it was 10 years > ago. Better for the customer/user, not for the vendor! As time goes by, > the advantage relation will turn imho, but that's another topic) > > Naming sponsors imho improves the willingness of employers trying out > active OpenSource partnerships and allowing their employees to spend > time not only on CONSUMING OpenSource, but on participating. This can be > for mutual benefit. OpenSource doesn't work with consumers only, and > supplier resources aren't available for free! > Sponsorship naming was always an appreciated additional meta info. > > If you need time to lift this to be beneficial for packages too, take > your time, but don't remove it just because _you_ or portmgr@ as a whole > want users to force using packages. Please stop dictating FreeBSD users! > >
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