Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 07:41:43 -0700 From: Chris <bsd-lists@bsdforge.com> To: Hans Ottevanger <hans@beastielabs.net> Cc: Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@freebsd.org>, current@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Message-ID: <974e635cf69727d1d6b1518f00f98777@bsdforge.com> In-Reply-To: <97ebc390-a19e-3203-7016-ce541796eb18@beastielabs.net> References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> <97ebc390-a19e-3203-7016-ce541796eb18@beastielabs.net>
index | next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail
[-- Attachment #1 --] On 2021-09-23 01:55, Hans Ottevanger wrote: > On 9/22/21 10:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >> Hello, >> >> TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! >> >> For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be >> confusing >> as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne >> shell >> compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. >> >> Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in >> interactive mode: >> * command completion (thanks pstef@) >> * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other >> shells >> * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) >> * support for history as described by POSIX. >> >> This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to >> propose to >> make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not >> MFCed) >> >> If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this >> proposal happen. >> >> Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! >> >> Best regards, >> Baptiste >> > > Hello, > > I applaud the proposal to change the default login shell of root to /bin/sh. > As > you mention the rest of the Unix(-like) world has used a Bourne-like root > login > shell forever. It is one of the first things I change on a new FreeBSD > install > anyway. > > While there, you could change "Charlie &" in the gecos field to something > more > sensible, e.g. just "Superuser". I know Charlie is there since 4.2BSD, but > the > reference to a long forgotten baseball player is probably lost by now. Also, > a lot > of explanation is often needed when users receive (automated) emails from > Charlie > Root. > > Once the login shell of root has changed to /bin/sh, I do not see any reason > to > keep toor around. It is there since 4.3BSD, but I don't know anybody who > uses it > in the long term. Many will just change the login shell of root to a > Bourne-like > shell right away. > > I have experimented a bit with the new usability features of sh in 14.0 and > I must > say that it was quite a positive experience. I could easily suppress the > urge to > install and use bash instead of sh. I wonder if the changes (but not the > ones to > /etc/passwd) could be MFC'd in a few months, once they have matured a bit, > so they It was mentioned in the OP this *wouldn't* be MFC'd. An aspect I'm glad to hear. > would land in 13.1. As you mention elsewhere in this thread, usage in > scripts is > not affected by these changes. And for interactive use it could be a POLA > violation, but the astonishment would be a positive one. --Chris [-- Attachment #2 --] -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBGDTzGEBCADHlXdS4V57s2soaEK2wi3o9rr9zo7to/giBSxCpFYJxOnPkL5A 2ibbvflrL8sWvAczx47wgDS7iIhzICBBRdnXtcFGnoeeriV27LSn+PcpnIB+DaWZ xe+6TDC0Z0JUJ7qDTjUBFzhnQGYlrVvc4WbnWTjJaB1LEwgIX8JqX5S3SX0/oXgs +OtqDuENZ4/a5te5xPnspTv/5NJHjqYGxjHP0Vw0KjRKS1AoJ1SBPSMQV5373AX9 5NzFS+CjqeQhjfHFPeRajQ8t4T6eqhKA7LtKMO1egeAwNehk9ZoEqEBT2+ojuKUd oSuzqvhhx+eUIYLFqoPSzMKR+YbStzergsbnABEBAAG0KUNocmlzIEh1dGNoaW5z b24gPGNocmlzaEB1bHRpbWF0ZWRucy5uZXQ+iQFrBBABCABVBgsJBwgDAgQVCAoC AxYCAQIZAQIbAwIeARgYaGtwczovL2tleXMub3BlbnBncC5vcmcWIQQGJAsyyBlk cuwsSYsYdR58veSVQAUCYNQl+wUJA8LAmgAKCRAYdR58veSVQN3NB/sFTeXrZeDk ml/dshET8QbkOPgXlnibk8+Mauf+y9LjS9WT7R8EmqhK7T7aw115JQ1RWTM6kpQM jyDBjYF7piJEpNKI9YDeSnODKir1fWQqm9+wd68wAKGvV4m8kg9uOHCvXG4J++MG zDFH+PuGVxKirFnaz46DpS0Zw7wTtjNiNFvCooYov3IeYGfqcchd3hwBuXgWLexZ vI8JW7lL9oXl7B/wcbSxg9rwy6/QLYGg6sEtYRcFYyvQWefSMJaLWjU/pZN2iSxM lXm55iZv1BXHupfeD1ldRiGs6ejrcpa8+U1ju291WbLzcIsU8IDljeW9/WB2dLFT hJmY1wRk158AtB5DaHJpcyA8YnNkLWxpc3RzQGJzZGZvcmdlLmNvbT6JAWgEEAEI AFIGCwkHCAMCBBUICgIDFgIBAhsDAh4BGBhoa3BzOi8va2V5cy5vcGVucGdwLm9y ZxYhBAYkCzLIGWRy7CxJixh1Hny95JVABQJg1CX7BQkDwsCaAAoJEBh1Hny95JVA aI0H/AlJAOfc5TcMKa479Itw31mwccKb+u0DPN9Gkm/RfWIBjeqqozxCM8G8jVFr dt/J6KmBO3dQtRZHlXdD57RAfDDl5Vm3uws0s+UIFOxMiua/YxyuDcKLsE8Bjkzx z+vuJ8f6cg4WlygPr3bo3l81AOuU/wOsTrNkQvVJxgATlooATSVxs0yNn2uoso9f nhMGUYsmT4c35JYh0k6Lq7Z2LS+ELipMTQ7M7iCWSP1O/zSEvPD4NBo52xCvjLka KcL4fRl7UN+6ouwGr5aUn83tztE/IR0AK45gFvL5yxI4g/zm1t3j2+hhhW1pBU8w uQWkD2DyLTWy7xs1uVF5m1ojHp60H0NocmlzIDxrbm90QHRhY29tYXdpcmVsZXNz Lm5ldD6JAWgEEAEIAFIGCwkHCAMCBBUICgIDFgIBAhsDAh4BGBhoa3BzOi8va2V5 cy5vcGVucGdwLm9yZxYhBAYkCzLIGWRy7CxJixh1Hny95JVABQJg1CX7BQkDwsCa AAoJEBh1Hny95JVA5m8H/iENaTD4j5QHfaHfiDIdxGx36GnETyRK0vAzr2b6pzG+ 7VHNCm4ZfuMsXDJ1ZD8fjTipvg0f4w31xCQI0NgNdAqudBqE075Jwcr9pE9j8VN1 Nvejto01cgLHODbLPhokrkFz1K023VjCdy5RaVuCZ6ajTif7Kq+BEOE8TumYx4ly zdhnh/9ICohqfVvEMh347wI36D7HuezHB773hOsHdqTy9T+0Qu0Vu+wud45MUy1f vRF11OkJFtKL0bh4yMSGVY1xte1Mt/qC6rd43TDtAW3ekw1o/exh764kp7XXQsmP wwe4Y040PZafcygJlEW9bBtjjxKnzDTvqeb5dMi6d7a0GENocmlzIDxvaWRldkBz dW5vcy5pbmZvPokBaAQQAQgAUgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEYGGhrcHM6 Ly9rZXlzLm9wZW5wZ3Aub3JnFiEEBiQLMsgZZHLsLEmLGHUefL3klUAFAmDUJfsF CQPCwJoACgkQGHUefL3klUB74wf8DSvT36bYZp7oqZ+35HNhTekJ2dbTzUhauF0S +Z9R1AGnNnINgua75CyQGdNCIgcZxo4qG9sePl7SllQ9i0qhmiw0mzmvky8bAZQV V/2Coc1C/81b+PI19VczYrbZC20jApsnbAIkKZgSh9XQoiLd3meY7G2lX2k6CXYL xSeBEh+N3BU8vLxExm82U71Qzm43u0kA1TlbTSqpBvg/tfAzTCsYQLSlB6b4ZL2W D6U7b7ZYF5oZNonVNWSHxpjUN3Evkta9xWS2+cgYQdlP1/ku5w5ZWwzmYG7awh0J /YuSNIp6Ks6D/PSBduu6XbH+FJHaXmq+ZCKpNBh5EKH+GhOfq7QfQ2hyaXMgPHBv cnRtYXN0ZXJAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBaAQQAQgAUgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgEC GwMCHgEYGGhrcHM6Ly9rZXlzLm9wZW5wZ3Aub3JnFiEEBiQLMsgZZHLsLEmLGHUe fL3klUAFAmDUJfwFCQPCwJoACgkQGHUefL3klUC3GggAo4Y+hslaoV7Namp7qWYZ Vei4ZwPfsYW7/HtmFORSGV8C8xR+LSkwzN1Hc7Qxvwv+DXuk7Hzd1Ag/xe8XhbNG /NMrXENY/8ym9TRbxtrBIhQyhkyShSUT+N+g16GRNZKuNL2MOIHc/RCS/YyyaTtu TzIxFbP7Gb2LO1LiiZsFVOGirHfxyiww7CAm3HXY2K4smOiKs6swZMpStVy3dd6A BcB1LPGs3ywDglFfKCRbVmjsPgsi61r4kUBVO6ML7lAmPDXLXOa+7iAtBN479QxC MVeH3Y3SMrvu61Vyf1xL79rIznU3u8C34zfxqsoIV0zCZe2YDLbFfLhZYqatYYEo e7QjImNocmlzLmgiIDxjaHJpcy5oQHVsdGltYXRlZG5zLm5ldD6JAWgEEAEIAFIG CwkHCAMCBBUICgIDFgIBAhsDAh4BGBhoa3BzOi8va2V5cy5vcGVucGdwLm9yZxYh BAYkCzLIGWRy7CxJixh1Hny95JVABQJg1CX8BQkDwsCaAAoJEBh1Hny95JVAkUEH /jkzYrRh7muqoebwEgVeULzPbAs/nYJm9SMME2ypB2FS8kusO7lE+33UJO7PhHkJ 0nJ+tPfP8UV+fCzVjKjabzpvUGuiMWKRZEK9xNoxwi/epOrRw87msHA2LPqEob+F sVh09Nc58s75koUgSYp5h0FjsLK0+fwsQ6PtTfpY5W6JJVJRQnMwGKk5czrukBSM 79kJvphgul2xuzqo5K7rM98dL75AwCJmJZnbyXpUJIhtY/G01nURupBiQGgNixYs Zeo6OR669TFrMRWxueXtlHD0WaX7JNSlR5uyzpVaDCH0Kxa6ozmZtD+a6dAXg630 zbLGHg51JIm38Uvi1i47Jaa0KCJILlIuIENvbW11bmljYXRpb25zIiA8ZG5zQGRu c3dhdGNoLmNvbT6JAWgEEAEIAFIGCwkHCAMCBBUICgIDFgIBAhsDAh4BGBhoa3Bz Oi8va2V5cy5vcGVucGdwLm9yZxYhBAYkCzLIGWRy7CxJixh1Hny95JVABQJg1CX8 BQkDwsCaAAoJEBh1Hny95JVAABoH/iOWA+9BKxLIAIFgW2nxTFDrGvbxXL/mVSFt SOInKX8UqqfLCcikfpWLsj2D7mg5rKFMCu+31UYYlnrXl4YY1qruq0vh41L72qNy yHYol+xW4BSbZXf2q2ph7+lnPsFoodw7acVun5F8M8NH0roo5AOSbgRlK69ZFIcq fDEJdtk4oul7pqGArdeTCCdrSaeR3zrRN8P0PDOkGKSdlpeOE6XHnbbmAPZIhr/9 KsSpX1BGyipda3k5kOB4TsGVo+cRJMkK+GMpsZ+lJ7ZzRbjHbC+b52TiAIjMtXCK 3A3LrDUeMoJwvRKoO1tzquF6HqHJSg0ArZOvAB3BHlwUyUtA/o25AQ0EYNPMYQEI ANFpucNRdYEOubTNluoK97N9JmDb0WRXPPow+3XfBom6ZBSrWqNBgqDbjxSsLB00 QXbA8EB5W/Oolp/0epwEtgNAxyKVPowE/un+rY1PqvGjeAR4gBhY9Za1Lg1Q3vnR /WzsY7RIQCqhWUbfdGn1u6r/EgTBVrwUp4U/3ggfSz/PcUt4pUhlgxfYvjSjOgEZ wbqaQIwWud11FKMARNAUJzvJL/fDGeKLMvgRUwynIDGzCq7e67hhEEo5jwkZ0gEl 8RxXHKFuYkbb/q7rpdifXYYT6QCFlEZhiRbtH5Us7kgKuRD2XUFEQnN4U/rxuydH 4XOP6iOhiZfYnK/y9HBeRCMAEQEAAYkBPAQYAQgAJgIbDBYhBAYkCzLIGWRy7CxJ ixh1Hny95JVABQJg1CYkBQkDwsDDAAoJEBh1Hny95JVApBsH/iEg2ANRkHByfXB+ sH3PMf2Jsg5NSuj8OiNeKKGGIKCJkSAPjtv5rvKLNcvIcTR5Vnhr0e6AteFcK2te iFWDmj0QuFoQNvIOHQ3nHBPSpai2Ubq12nvYfg4bYK28AMi4xPMssgQ8awFgAI2V k9okq5XwC0Cc1MGhupEWYYSaFLIDQvFvRRSw1Lyc/W3SKa4d2dgesIPnB/rdv0Zq u8ftsSmurKxA2hQeNIcn06Ew7AbWUIjFX/bDXJlg/3Sj/spU2ur23TmaADBKhT5P DvfdaFTkk0SBfpN1j2S0DNXBHSrWvRp15zZmU4hwELiUY/H2/j/XpOGV3Q0i2iob 1hJ30C8= =aMQi -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----help
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?974e635cf69727d1d6b1518f00f98777>