Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 00:24:33 +0100 From: Joshuah Hurst <joshhurst@gmail.com> To: Rick Macklem <rmacklem@uoguelph.ca> Cc: Pedro Giffuni <pfg@freebsd.org>, Cedric Blancher <cedric.blancher@gmail.com>, Freebsd hackers list <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>, Richard Yao <ryao@gentoo.org>, Jordan Hubbard <jordan.hubbard@gmail.com>, Lionel Cons <lionelcons1972@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Alternate Data Stream Support in FreeBSD (was Re: O_XATTR support in FreeBSD?) Message-ID: <CAEEMktN88X6BsUT1nxB9CrL8uyR5CnDD_98qVPc=wmuZLP5gMA@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1300352912.21429386.1385505735146.JavaMail.root@uoguelph.ca> References: <CALXu0Ufw7K0jAucy9U2JAb_KfXTZ4vmkomCBGN0jCy8k=fQxDw@mail.gmail.com> <1300352912.21429386.1385505735146.JavaMail.root@uoguelph.ca>
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On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 11:42 PM, Rick Macklem <rmacklem@uoguelph.ca> wrote= : > Cedric Blancher wrote: >> On 26 November 2013 13:27, Lionel Cons <lionelcons1972@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > On 26 November 2013 11:19, Jordan Hubbard >> > <jordan.hubbard@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Nov 26, 2013, at 1:51 AM, Cedric Blancher >> >> <cedric.blancher@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>> 1. You do not need more syscalls. Solaris uses the plain openat() >> >>> syscall for this, with the O_XATTR flag passed to the normal >> >>> open()/openat() flags to open a named attribute. Likewise read(), >> >>> write(), mmap() etc work, too. >> >> >> >> I don=92t know if I=92d go so far as to say =93you do not need more >> >> syscalls=94; >> >> there are additional functions for manipulating EAs that go well >> >> beyond >> >> the Solaris extensions to the directory and file I/O functions. >> >> Assuming you >> >> want to be able to get/set as well as enumerate or remove EAs, >> >> then >> >> you might just as well add getxattr(2), listxattr(2), >> >> removexattr(2), setxattr(2) >> >> too and follow the herd (Linux and OS X, so far). >> > >> > You mean 'follow the lemmings down into the abyss'? :) >> > >> >> We=92re also glossing over ACLs and where they get to live. I don=92= t >> >> know if Robert >> >> and friends have stuck them in a separate namespace on FreeBSD or >> >> if they=92re >> >> in system-protected EAs, as they are in OS X, but ACL preservation >> >> across >> >> serialization / deserialization is just as important as it is for >> >> EAs. >> > >> > Could we first agree what we are talking about, please? I'm a bit >> > new >> > to this thread, but AFAIK we are talking about the Windows >> > Alternate >> > Data Streams as they appear in networked filesystem like NFSv4 and >> > CIFS and physical filesystems like NTFS, ZFS and Solaris UFS, >> > right? >> > ACLs have no direct relation to those streams. >> > >> > The attributes support from Linux has been proven (at least from >> > CERNs >> > viewpoint) as pretty useless because of their size constrains and >> > crappy API (i.e. no mmap(), no sparse support, no normal tools can >> > access them, ...) so IMHO the herd to follow is the herd which >> > implements at least the following requirements: >> > 1) A proper implementation, which includes access using the normal >> > system utilities (in Solaris there is the runat(1) utility to >> > access >> > the hidden directory containing the attribute files, and bash4.3 >> > and >> > ksh have cd -@ to cwd into the hidden directories containing the >> > attribute files. From that point on (inside the hidden directory) >> > ls(1) and even chown(1) and chmod(1) work as usual. You can even >> > stick >> > ZFS and NFSv4 ACLs on the files in the hidden directory containing >> > the >> > attribute files) >> > 2) read(), write() and mmap() access, i.e. the normal POSIX API (of >> > course with the minor extension to flag an access to an alternate >> > data >> > stream or the directory containing the alternate data streams) >> > 2) Support in networked filesystems (i.e. NFSv4, CIFS) >> > 3) No size restrictions (just to explain, at CERN the alternate >> > data >> > streams are often precompiled caches or index files of the main >> > file's >> > contents, and can easily in the TB range) >> > 4) Support for sparse data (i.e. SEEK_HOLE and SEEK_DATA) >> > 5) More than one implementation available >> > >> > AFAIK Solaris, Nexenta, Illumos (NFSv4, ZFS, UFS) and Windows >> > Alternate Data Streams (CIFS, NTFS) fit these requirements. >> >> +1 >> >> Other argument pro-Alternate Data Streams: Alternate Data Streams are >> a superset of the Linux extended attributes (and can thus be used to >> emulate them in libc), have all their strengths but none of their >> weaknesses (like the hideously duplicated vfs apis and the lack of >> support in POSIX utilities). >> > Not exactly, as I understand it. Linux (and FreeBSD) extended attributes > support atomic replacement of the entire attribute value. At least for > NFSv4 named attributes, this cannot be emulated, since the named attribut= e > is replaced by a "Setattr size=3D0, write offset=3D0" and there is no way > to do those 2 operations as one atomic operation. Sun once proposed a new flag to renameat() to atomically swap two files. That would solve this solution without new syscalls or extra apis. It would even fit into existing NFSv4 requests without major protocol changes. Josh
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