Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2024 14:28:51 +0100 From: Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> To: Alejandro Imass <aimass@yabarana.com> Cc: Paul Vixie <paul@redbarn.org>, FreeBSD virtualization <freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: If we are so opposed to Docker and Kubernetes, what is the real alternative on BSD? Message-ID: <CA%2B1FSihVeYaqDaMo16hs9CkQb2kJRi08ODUpKg7kuKML%2B9CR9w@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CAHieY7ST9z90=oO92z21fXCXNnU6fAz3HxZ_ccBud4FtfeTsKA@mail.gmail.com> References: <CAHieY7Q2hFoNiruGof81UuomFs5Z%2B6o186d_%2BY8w7JuoQWpitg@mail.gmail.com> <CAAdA2WNFWDUdGR6rboGVBojCx9USPi1oNOFQOw%2ByYOENUek5tQ@mail.gmail.com> <CA%2B1FSijA6w%2BKmxuNcweH5txmKL70ObL9h1OrF_JzTt-JLkVrjA@mail.gmail.com> <CAHieY7SFHAEQVdu75ffdpghXZzsxZqMXaKtxUFS0ZUYLM14yDA@mail.gmail.com> <CA%2B1FSihg2Q_cnpxFpWaPn_M8qziCqMw=o7DWjYWXGR4RKki12w@mail.gmail.com> <CAHieY7Tmw0aqgVSmM5A5zC6ULW4dNANXCqGv8c=kxCzFF9Dh6g@mail.gmail.com> <c849e14b-a612-dc0b-e0a0-0586386aa1fa@redbarn.org> <CA%2B1FSijet4G3nS97ZjA6jsZC=SJ5gKzxKxDyqkQUtasCi3Lw9A@mail.gmail.com> <CAHieY7ST9z90=oO92z21fXCXNnU6fAz3HxZ_ccBud4FtfeTsKA@mail.gmail.com>
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[-- Attachment #1 --] Alejandro,I'm not sure if you are aware that the discussion at a certain point has broadened and deepened. I don't understand why I can't propose an alternative to the actual jail and jail managers that you are talking about. And no. On the L4 website there is a userland based on new versions of Ubuntu and Debian that can be used with the microkernel offered. They also say that FreeBSD can be compiled,too,using the same technique used to build the Linux userland proposed. If you want to talk about containers,why not also add the microkernel topic,that's not a container,but its working can be compared to the microservices offered by Linux and FreeBSD if they run with a microkernel. On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 1:30 PM Alejandro Imass <aimass@yabarana.com> wrote: > > > On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 12:40 AM Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Excuse me. I'm not very experienced,but isn't the L4 or any other >> microkernel a valid alternative to containers ? If I have understood >> correctly how it works,it allows multiple instances of the various services >> implemented within the microkernel OS. How many instances can we have ? For >> example in the L4 Linux kernel webpage it is explained that it can boot >> FreeBSD in cooperation with Linux. It works like xen. WIth xen we can have >> multiple virtual machines. But xen today has been preferred to kvm. And >> anyway,we always talk about monolithic kernels. So,I want to ask : is a >> microkernel OS a valid alternative to the containers ? If it allows to run >> only some services of the "virtualized" os,why not use it ? Why not invest >> effort and time to implement this solution as an alternative to the >> containers that FreeBSD already has ? Personally I like the idea of seeing >> Linux and FreeBSD work together. >> >> > IMHO, way beyond the scope of this thread. AFAIK neither Linux nor FreeBSD > are microkernels. > > The original question is more like what would it take to run k8s natively > using different jail managers like CBSD and BastilleBSD as drivers? > Does it already exist? maybe: https://github.com/tnorlin/kubernetes > What is the state? What are the limitations? > etc. etc. > > > > -- Mario. [-- Attachment #2 --] <div dir="ltr">Alejandro,I'm not sure if you are aware that the discussion at a certain point <span class="gmail-HwtZe" lang="en"><span class="gmail-jCAhz gmail-ChMk0b"><span class="gmail-ryNqvb">has broadened and deepened. I don't understand why I can't propose an alternative to the actual jail and jail managers that you are talking about. And no. On the L4 website there is a userland based on new versions of Ubuntu and Debian that can be used with the microkernel offered. They also say that FreeBSD can be compiled,too,using the same technique used to build the Linux userland proposed. If you want to talk about containers,why not also add the microkernel topic,that's not a container,but its working can be compared to the microservices offered by Linux and FreeBSD if they run with a microkernel. </span></span></span><span class="gmail-ZSCsVd"></span><div class="gmail-OvtS8d"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 1:30 PM Alejandro Imass <<a href="mailto:aimass@yabarana.com">aimass@yabarana.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 12:40 AM Mario Marietto <<a href="mailto:marietto2008@gmail.com" target="_blank">marietto2008@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Excuse me. I'm not very experienced,but isn't the L4 or any other microkernel a valid alternative to containers ? If I have understood correctly how it works,it allows multiple instances of the various services implemented within the microkernel OS. How many instances can we have ? For example in the L4 Linux kernel webpage it is explained that it can boot FreeBSD in cooperation with Linux. It works like xen. WIth xen we can have multiple virtual machines. But xen today has been preferred to kvm. And anyway,we always talk about monolithic kernels. So,I want to ask : is a microkernel OS a valid alternative to the containers ? If it allows to run only some services of the "virtualized" os,why not use it ? Why not invest effort and time to implement this solution as an alternative to the containers that FreeBSD already has ? Personally I like the idea of seeing Linux and FreeBSD work together. <br></div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>IMHO, way beyond the scope of this thread. AFAIK neither Linux nor FreeBSD are microkernels. </div><div><br></div><div>The original question is more like what would it take to run k8s natively using different jail managers like CBSD and BastilleBSD as drivers?</div><div>Does it already exist? maybe: <a href="https://github.com/tnorlin/kubernetes" target="_blank">https://github.com/tnorlin/kubernetes</a></div><div>What is the state? What are the limitations?</div><div>etc. etc.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div></div></div> </blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">Mario.<br></div>help
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