Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 11:58:29 -0600 From: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> To: Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org> Cc: FreeBSD Net <freebsd-net@freebsd.org>, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>, "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" <freebsd-arch@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Message-ID: <CANCZdfreqBYWW5yUPOaV3Ef=D19w5EePTWNJN8SmvW06oLgqrg@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1538675265.14264.12.camel@freebsd.org> References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <55a44e73-60ab-e386-360a-b0a0198a0e71@zyxst.net> <8878cac1-d5d2-4224-6aa5-85516db23c14@sorbs.net> <CANCZdfrMbD1U0u-3WQJYnoyyZitJKQo5CnBTeZVbZ2ONjt20pQ@mail.gmail.com> <1538673997.14264.9.camel@freebsd.org> <CANCZdfqHG=t2NPPrP3LtpCnu%2B_pVXFRCapkLVJWCfaFnXvXj2w@mail.gmail.com> <1538675265.14264.12.camel@freebsd.org>
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On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:47 AM Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org> wrote: > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 11:38 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:26 AM Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 10:21 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:15 AM Michelle Sullivan > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tech-lists wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm astonished you're considering removing rl given how common > it is. > > > > > > > > > > > I'll second that comment - though no disrespect to Brooks. Brooks > as > > > > > far as I can see is just the messenger. > > > > > > > > > Absent good data, one has to make one's best guesses. I guessed wrong > > > here > > > > > > > > in my comments to Brooks about which ones were must keeps. I knew it > was > > > > popular back in the day (~2000), but had thought it's popularity had > > > waned > > > > > > > > much more than it apparently has. I last deployed systems with rl in > them > > > > around 2007, and at the time it was trailing edge gear (the SBCs we > used > > > at > > > > > > > > Timing Solutions tended to use popular, but ~5-year-old technology > > > because > > > > > > > > that market segment wanted longevity of spare availability...). > > > > > > > > Warner > > > 11 years later, we (Timing Solutions, now a division of Microchip) are > > > still using SBCs with rl(4) hardware and still shipping software > > > updates with that driver built into the kernel. We build systems with a > > > lifespan in the field of 20 years or more, and the stability and > > > compatibility across OS upgrades over that kind of span is a BIG reason > > > to use freebsd rather than linux for such things. > > > > > OK. I'd have thought those SBCs would have gone out of production years > > ago.... It's a good datapoint to know that there's multiple users of > > FreeBSD using these parts in products that are still shipping. That's a > > clear and compelling benefit to the project that offsets the efforts that > > it's taken them to keep things current with rl. > > > > In this case, though, rl is off the list, so that hardware should still > be > > good. The only other SBC I was aware of at Timing Solutions was one that > > had an 'ed' chip on it (an ISA realtek part IIRC) that was used in around > > 2001, but in a 'one off' custom setup that I don't think will ever be > > upgraded.... But I have to ask since I know how things worked during my > > time there and systems that 'would never be upgraded' often times were > > later... > > > > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, smc, > > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this thread, and > > which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD system of any age today. > > > > Warner > > I checked all our various kernel configs, and the only one on the list > we still use appears to be rl. > > One driver I was surprised to see was not on the list was vte. So I'll > just preemptively mention that we do use that one too. > I'll assume that you've deployed more than 5 of these systems and that you may someday upgrade them as well? Which of the Vortex86 processors are you using, if you can answer that... Warnerhome | help
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