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Date:      Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:00:44 -0700
From:      "Jason S. Anderson" <jason.anderson@windriver.com>
To:        "Pedro F. Giffuni" <pfg1+@pitt.edu>, John Baldwin <jhb@FreeBSD.ORG>
Cc:        freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, crap@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Microsoft giving back to FreeBSD !!
Message-ID:  <5.0.2.1.2.20010627194638.01ad1970@mail.wrs.com>
In-Reply-To: <3B3A7898.3A4AD201@pitt.edu>
References:  <XFMail.010627143038.jhb@FreeBSD.org>

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Funny how these threads seemed to converge over the past 48 hours.
Web services and .NET. Jordan's transition to Apple. GPL vs BSD
licensing. Microsoft's "efforts" to participate in the open source
arena. What I believe some of the early adopter crowd is beginning
to realize is just how much overlap and interdependency there is
between all of these different subjects.

After all, what is .NET really? It's a new development platform,
just as Win32, J2EE, *BSD, Solaris, and even PowerBuilder are all
development platforms. What's different between each of them (on the
surface) is the market or value chain they're trying to promote and
the breadth of capability the platform offers to both developers and
users. Licensing models directly impact the marketability of a
particular platform, as well as the size of the supporting network
of partners and commercial enterprises.

IMHO, what I would interpret from Microsoft's activities over the
past 18 months or so -- .NET, the GPL vendetta, supporting variant
forms of open-source licensing -- as a survival reaction. It's clear
that the traditional desktop application platform isn't going to
scale through the next decade, and so they must either invent a new
model or embrace other existing ones. They're hedging their bets by
doing both, but I think I know which they hope will pan out.

The question is what does it mean to FreeBSD? Like Microsoft, there
is a need to establish an identity that will survive through the
next decade. If anything, .NET could turn out to be a great
opportunity to position BSD as a better .NET server than Windows.
Microsoft still wins by establishing .NET as a viable framework and
peddling their wares through web services, while becoming less
dependent on monopolization of the operating system commodity.

Now, if open source communities emerge to try and challenge .NET
as a framework, that's a separate issue. I don't know how it affects
"FreeBSD" per se, beyond considering support for more than one Net
service framework.

FreeBSD: your enterprise .NET server?

-Jason
(is crap@freebsd.org just an alias to -chat?)

At 08:21 PM 6/27/01 -0400, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote:
>Well...yes, we are being used, but that's what BSD is about.
>
>All in all, we have two options..embrace them or ignore them, and the
>final decision will be made by the end users. Are windoze users
>interested in FreeBSD now? Is Yahoo (to mention one company, replace
>any other name here) interested in .NET if it's more open than Java?
>
>What they are doing is perfectly legal and ethically correct; I don't
>think they will be able to "squash" the GPL though.
>
>I think this will be good for FreeBSD.. but if the interested parties
>are not careful it will bring harm to Linux and to Java. I don't care
>much about the first one, and believe me...they will survive. About
>Java and what it means to the Internet, let's say they are in great
>danger unless they react now (and I don't think they will) but that is
>not our fault.
>
>About these comments about breaking apart the Opensource community;
>read well the FUD about BSD vs GPL and you will conclude that we have
>never been together. This ends up being a slight advantage in favor of
>Microsoft, but it's not MS's fault. As I said the could just as well
>release them under the same license for Linux.
>
>      Pedro.
>
>ps...what is crap@FreeBSD.org ... nevermind, I'll find out :).
>
>John Baldwin wrote:
> >
> > On 27-Jun-01 Pedro F Giffuni wrote:
> > > This is very cool!
> > >
> > > http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2001/06/27/dotnet.html
> >
> > I'm not sure it's really cool.  M$ is just using us to snub the GPL crowd.
> > Presumably if they actually manage to use BSD to squash the GPl, they 
> will just
> > turn around and attack BSD next.
> >
> > --
> >
> > John Baldwin <jhb@FreeBSD.org> -- http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/
> > PGP Key: http://www.baldwin.cx/~john/pgpkey.asc
> > "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!"  -  http://www.FreeBSD.org/
>
>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
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  Jason Anderson                         email: jasona@windriver.com
  Manager, FreeBSD Engineering
  Wind River


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