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Date:      Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:03:36 +0200 (EET)
From:      Narvi <narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee>
To:        Christoph Kukulies <kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de>
Cc:        Sean Kelly <kelly@yarmouth>, kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, hackers@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...)
Message-ID:  <Pine.BSF.3.91.960227094743.2001C-100000@haldjas.folklore.ee>
In-Reply-To: <199602261704.SAA01438@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de>

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On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Christoph P. Kukulies wrote:

> > 
> > 
> > >>>>> "Christoph" == Christoph Kukulies <kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> writes:
> > 
> >     Christoph> Tcl/Tk has a lot of rough edges. Partially looks ugly
> >     Christoph> (too broad borders, ugly shades and colors - ok, you
> >     Christoph> may argue it is customizable).
> > 
> > That's nothing but opinion and doesn't drive the argument.  See: I
> > think Tcl/Tk looks really nice.  And what's so ugly about gray?  Hey,
> > some of my carpet is gray and my hair'll turn gray some day, too!
> > 
> >     Christoph> Show me a good file selector box in Tcl/Tk or a tree
> >     Christoph> view. Text selection sucks imho.
> > 
> > I'll grant you the file selector, but the text selection?  Nope,
> > 'fraid not.  
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong but last time I used a text selection in a Tcl/Tk app
> it didn't behave a la Mac/Smalltalk/Windows - CTRLC-C, CTRL-X, CTRL-V,
> Auto replace when selected so you can type into a selection,
> selected region appears as 3D-shaded stripes instead of a whole block.

Ctrl-C, Ctrl-X, Ctrl-V ? They aren't actually Windows default - some 
programs use them and some don't. Smalltalk? I think I saw somewhere 
smalltalk for FreeBSD. Text selection? It is like that until someone 
pulls himself together and writes another, alternative widget - it's 
actually much easier with X/TclTk than doing it under Windows (try it out 
if you don't believe me). And it won't be slow any more if you change 
some of it into C...

> 
> > Works just fine.  Looks real nice, too.  :-) 
> 
> Nice, maybe for someone who comes from an alphanumerical world and never
> saw other GUIs before. You would also declare Motif style GUI
> as sufficiently nice, do you? Actually it is sufficient to do the
> job but that's it.
> 
> OK, these may be my opinions but I think others my come to similar
> conclusions.  Tcl/Tk isn't something that knocks you off your socks,
> same is Motif.  I played with tkWM - pleppedeplepp. Where is an IDE
> (Integrated development environment)? I doubt that Tcl/Tk
> would develop as the incending force to produce myriads of applications
> in a manner Win32 does. Spend a day with a Win32/MSVC++ programmer.
> You would want to have this under Unix.
> 

Not convinced:

	1) Win32 is a API, *not a language or a program development 
	   tool*.
	2) Visual programming and microsoft, visual programming and 
	   Win32, visual programming and windows are not the same things 
	   - (as Windows95 and multimedia are not the same things) you 
	   can do as well (at least) with other tools.


> -provoke mode off :-)
> > 
> > -- 
> > Sean Kelly
> > NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory, Boulder Colorado USA
> > 
> > TASK: Shoot yourself in the foot.  In HyperTalk: Put the first bullet
> > of gun into foot left of leg of you.  Answer the result.
> > 
> 
> --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de
> 



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