Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2024 14:48:42 -0800 From: paul beard <paulbeard@gmail.com> To: Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com>, FreeBSD Questions List <questions@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: How to upgrade an EOL FreeBSD release or how to make it working again Message-ID: <CAMtcK2q-%2B5NLOdo35A5qzjziGG0xxvfETRifbR8D5W39n2uChQ@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CA%2B1FSihPeyNK78tjRJZeNJZ-puzV_z4NcOf%2B1giDnUKbBpD7ow@mail.gmail.com> References: <CA%2B1FSihU4WJWbbD9k9th4GXvyAKTL3URic-BAFUY7Og=wLn27A@mail.gmail.com> <CA390EE5-3339-4A15-8087-C28B309FA523@mit.edu> <CA%2B1FSih6j0QP9nKkxFCjMCeuMdvJca3WxVsi8%2BQaN2sV8YO-zw@mail.gmail.com> <D435604C-70F1-454D-B3AE-CD4D7C99D383@FreeBSD.org> <CAMtcK2p%2Bs5%2B1-QYC_%2BUceOz_DFDUsfzwL4dePh9TX%2BDnh=78og@mail.gmail.com> <CA%2B1FSija47P8SY7zL-5KzgZ30vgcPtykEN3HiJXbo4rZbFoObw@mail.gmail.com> <CA%2B1FSihPeyNK78tjRJZeNJZ-puzV_z4NcOf%2B1giDnUKbBpD7ow@mail.gmail.com>
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--00000000000080e017060f03d1e3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NetBSD runs on almost everything up to a Dyson vacuum=E2=80=A6take a look, = there is an ARM flavor supported there. It will feel familiar, I expect. But to an earlier poster's point, that is pretty old hardware. I bow to no one in my enthusiasm for keeping obsolete hardware running, but a chromebook might be too little reward for the effort needed. On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 2:06=E2=80=AFPM Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.= com> wrote: > Hello Paul, > > Do you know for sure if I can install NetBSD on my Google / Samsung / Arm > / Chromebook ? > > On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 10:38=E2=80=AFPM Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gma= il.com> > wrote: > >> What is NetBSD for ? >> >> On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 9:53=E2=80=AFPM paul beard <paulbeard@gmail.com>= wrote: >> >>> This is usually where someone asks if OP has heard of NetBSD. >>> >>> https://www.netbsd.org >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 10:16=E2=80=AFAM David Chisnall <theraven@freeb= sd.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 15 Jan 2024, at 16:46, Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > The ARM Chromebook is based on armv7,it is still recent. >>>> >>>> For reference, the ARMv7 architecture was introduced in 2005. The las= t >>>> cores that implemented the architecture were released in 2014. This i= s not >>>> a =E2=80=98recent=E2=80=99 architecture, it=E2=80=99s one that=E2=80= =99s 19 years old and has been largely >>>> dead for several years. >>>> >>>> > But let's change perspective for a moment,don't think about the ARM >>>> Chromebook. My question is : how to upgrade FreeBSD when it goes EOL. >>>> >>>> Generally, run `freebsd-update`. This is a very different question >>>> from =E2=80=98how do I do a new install of an old an unsupported versi= on?' >>>> >>>> > I ask this because there is a huge difference here between FreeBSD >>>> and Linux. Today if you need to use , for example Ubuntu 14.0, you can= use >>>> it as is. Yes,there will be a lot of bugs,but it will work without >>>> crashes. But if you want to use an old FreeBSD system,nothing will wo= rk >>>> for you. So,do you know some methods to install even packages or ports= ? >>>> You know,there are cases when you need to do some experiments so that = you >>>> can keep your machine off the internet,so you aren't scared that someo= ne >>>> can compromise it. Totally prohibiting the users to use an old >>>> system,removing ports and packages is not a choice that I approve of. = And >>>> I'm not the only one that thinks like this. >>>> >>>> If you want to use an old and unsupported version of FreeBSD, no one i= s >>>> stopping you, but: >>>> >>>> - You will need to build the releases. The source code is still in >>>> git, you can. The scripts for building the release images are right t= here >>>> in the repo. Just grab the relevant release or releng branch and go. >>>> >>>> - You will need to build packages. Newer versions of the ports tree >>>> will not be tested with the older release, so you may need to use an o= lder >>>> checkout of the ports tree. Poudriere will build a package repo for y= ou. >>>> >>>> In both cases, if you=E2=80=99re using older versions you almost certa= inly >>>> *will* have security vulnerabilities. The project strongly advises yo= u not >>>> to do this and not to blame us when you install known-insecure softwar= e and >>>> end up compromised. >>>> >>>> The project does not have enough active contributors to keep >>>> maintaining things indefinitely. This is why release have a five-year >>>> supported lifetime. If you want to pick up an old branch and maintain= it, >>>> you=E2=80=99re welcome to. In the past, companies have picked up old = branches and >>>> maintained them for customers that had a dependency on them. If you w= ant >>>> to pay someone to maintain an old branch (and have deep pockets) then = there >>>> are probably a few companies that will happily take your money. >>>> >>>> Maintaining binaries is a slightly different issue, but it=E2=80=99s n= ot >>>> totally unrelated. Keeping old packages around consumes disk space an= d >>>> costs the project money (remember, every package is mirrored across th= e >>>> CDN, so this isn=E2=80=99t just a single disk). Even if it were free, >>>> philosophically, I think making it easy for users to install known-ins= ecure >>>> software is a bad idea but if you want to keep a package repo with >>>> out-of-date packages online indefinitely then you can. You can run >>>> Poudriere and even cross-compile from a fairly beefy cloud machine qui= te >>>> easily. >>>> >>>> It=E2=80=99s been a while since I did a full package build, but I woul= d guess >>>> that you could do a single package build (all ports) for about $50 on = a >>>> cloud VM, more (2-3x) if it=E2=80=99s emulated. Storing the results f= or a small >>>> number of users will cost around $10-20/month. If you think this is a= n >>>> important thing to do, then you are absolutely welcome to spend your o= wn >>>> money on doing it. >>>> >>>> David >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Paul Beard / www.paulbeard.org/ >>> >> >> >> -- >> Mario. >> > > > -- > Mario. > --=20 Paul Beard / www.paulbeard.org/ --00000000000080e017060f03d1e3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">NetBSD runs on almost everything=C2=A0up to a Dyson vacuum= =E2=80=A6take a look, there is an ARM flavor supported there. It will feel = familiar, I expect. But to an earlier=C2=A0poster's point, that is pret= ty old hardware. I bow to no one in my enthusiasm=C2=A0for keeping obsolete= =C2=A0hardware running, but a chromebook might be too little reward for the= effort needed.=C2=A0</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" = class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 2:06=E2=80=AFPM Mario Marietto= <<a href=3D"mailto:marietto2008@gmail.com">marietto2008@gmail.com</a>&g= t; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p= x 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color= :rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hello Paul,</div>= <div><br></div><div>Do you know for sure if I can install NetBSD on my Goog= le / Samsung / Arm / Chromebook ? <br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_q= uote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 10:38= =E2=80=AFPM Mario Marietto <<a href=3D"mailto:marietto2008@gmail.com" ta= rget=3D"_blank">marietto2008@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote = class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1= px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:= 1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">What is NetBSD for ? <br></div><br><div class=3D"gmai= l_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 9:53= =E2=80=AFPM paul beard <<a href=3D"mailto:paulbeard@gmail.com" target=3D= "_blank">paulbeard@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"g= mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-= left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div = dir=3D"ltr">This is usually where someone asks if OP has heard of NetBSD.= =C2=A0<div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://www.netbsd.org" target=3D"_bla= nk">https://www.netbsd.org</a><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote= "><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 10:16=E2=80= =AFAM David Chisnall <<a href=3D"mailto:theraven@freebsd.org" target=3D"= _blank">theraven@freebsd.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"g= mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-= left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On 15= Jan 2024, at 16:46, Mario Marietto <<a href=3D"mailto:marietto2008@gmai= l.com" target=3D"_blank">marietto2008@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> > <br> > The ARM Chromebook is based on armv7,it is still recent.<br> <br> For reference, the ARMv7 architecture was introduced in 2005.=C2=A0 The las= t cores that implemented the architecture were released in 2014.=C2=A0 This= is not a =E2=80=98recent=E2=80=99 architecture, it=E2=80=99s one that=E2= =80=99s 19 years old and has been largely dead for several years.<br> <br> > But let's change perspective for a moment,don't think about th= e ARM Chromebook. My question is : how to upgrade FreeBSD when it goes EOL.= <br> <br> Generally, run `freebsd-update`.=C2=A0 This is a very different question fr= om =E2=80=98how do I do a new install of an old an unsupported version?'= ;<br> <br> > I ask this because there is a huge difference here between FreeBSD and= Linux. Today if you need to use , for example Ubuntu 14.0, you can use it = as is. Yes,there will be a lot of bugs,but it will work without crashes.=C2= =A0 But if you want to use an old FreeBSD system,nothing will work for you.= So,do you know some methods to install even packages or ports ? You know,t= here are cases when you need to do some experiments so that you can keep yo= ur machine off the internet,so you aren't scared that someone can compr= omise it. Totally prohibiting the users to use an old system,removing ports= and packages is not a choice that I approve of. And I'm not the only o= ne that thinks like this.<br> <br> If you want to use an old and unsupported version of FreeBSD, no one is sto= pping you, but:<br> <br> =C2=A0- You will need to build the releases.=C2=A0 The source code is still= in git, you can.=C2=A0 The scripts for building the release images are rig= ht there in the repo.=C2=A0 Just grab the relevant release or releng branch= and go.<br> <br> =C2=A0- You will need to build packages.=C2=A0 Newer versions of the ports = tree will not be tested with the older release, so you may need to use an o= lder checkout of the ports tree.=C2=A0 Poudriere will build a package repo = for you.=C2=A0 <br> <br> In both cases, if you=E2=80=99re using older versions you almost certainly = *will* have security vulnerabilities.=C2=A0 The project strongly advises yo= u not to do this and not to blame us when you install known-insecure softwa= re and end up compromised.<br> <br> The project does not have enough active contributors to keep maintaining th= ings indefinitely.=C2=A0 This is why release have a five-year supported lif= etime.=C2=A0 If you want to pick up an old branch and maintain it, you=E2= =80=99re welcome to.=C2=A0 In the past, companies have picked up old branch= es and maintained them for customers that had a dependency on them.=C2=A0 I= f you want to pay someone to maintain an old branch (and have deep pockets)= then there are probably a few companies that will happily take your money.= <br> <br> Maintaining binaries is a slightly different issue, but it=E2=80=99s not to= tally unrelated.=C2=A0 Keeping old packages around consumes disk space and = costs the project money (remember, every package is mirrored across the CDN= , so this isn=E2=80=99t just a single disk).=C2=A0 Even if it were free, ph= ilosophically, I think making it easy for users to install known-insecure s= oftware is a bad idea but if you want to keep a package repo with out-of-da= te packages online indefinitely then you can.=C2=A0 You can run Poudriere a= nd even cross-compile from a fairly beefy cloud machine quite easily.<br> <br> It=E2=80=99s been a while since I did a full package build, but I would gue= ss that you could do a single package build (all ports) for about $50 on a = cloud VM, more (2-3x) if it=E2=80=99s emulated.=C2=A0 Storing the results f= or a small number of users will cost around $10-20/month.=C2=A0 If you thin= k this is an important thing to do, then you are absolutely welcome to spen= d your own money on doing it.<br> <br> David<br> <br> <br> </blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div><span class=3D"gmail_si= gnature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature">Pa= ul Beard / <a href=3D"http://www.paulbeard.org/" target=3D"_blank">www.paul= beard.org/</a><br></div> </blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><br><span class=3D"gmail_signature_pre= fix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature">Mario.<br></d= iv> </blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><br><span class=3D"gmail_signature_pre= fix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature">Mario.<br></d= iv> </blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div><span class=3D"gmail_si= gnature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature">Pa= ul Beard / <a href=3D"http://www.paulbeard.org/" target=3D"_blank">www.paul= beard.org/</a><br></div> --00000000000080e017060f03d1e3--
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