Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 10:21:33 -0700 From: "Ngie Cooper (yaneurabeya)" <yaneurabeya@gmail.com> To: Alexey Dokuchaev <danfe@FreeBSD.org> Cc: Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org>, rgrimes@freebsd.org, Ngie Cooper <ngie@freebsd.org>, svn-src-head@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, src-committers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: svn commit: r318250 - in head: etc etc/newsyslog.conf.d etc/syslog.d tools/build/mk Message-ID: <B3FBCAD0-338C-4D39-B790-9B018C6C2970@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20170513165145.GC84947@FreeBSD.org> References: <201705131537.v4DFbgWV045290@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <1494692660.59865.85.camel@freebsd.org> <20170513165145.GC84947@FreeBSD.org>
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[-- Attachment #1 --] > On May 13, 2017, at 9:51 AM, Alexey Dokuchaev <danfe@FreeBSD.org> wrote: > > On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 10:24:20AM -0600, Ian Lepore wrote: >> ... >> The evolution for years has been away from monolithic config files >> containing a mashup of values for unrelated subsystems and towards >> .conf.d directories containing many single-subject files. > > This "evolution" had probably originated in people's minds who know little > about software development and maintenance. And FWIW, newsyslog files are > not about "unrelated subsystems", it's about one subsystem responsible for > log rotation. This hasn’t really changed with moving to .conf.d. A single subsystem is managing a series of modular config files, instead of a single config file. I firmly believe that this was the right general approach to go. > Speaking of "unrelated subsystems", /etc/rc.conf is a living manifestation > of how "unrelated subsystems" can be configured in a single file and, mind > you, everyone is being quite happy about it. … except people have to bake in defaults in rc.d scripts for whether or not services should be disabled because they can’t put apache defaults in /etc/rc.conf . /etc/rc.conf isn’t managed via etcupdate or mergemaster, so I think this comparison is like apples to oranges. >> The monolithic files are difficult to edit > > Quite on the contrary: monolithic files are much easier to edit and keep > track of by a human being (system operator). I strongly disagree, having seen multiple configuration files a couple hundred lines long. It gets messy and for those who don’t understand how syslogd/newsyslog works (inevitably, these people are the ones that get charged with implementing daemons, and this is one of the pieces that needs to be done). >> and otherwise manage programmatically, and especially difficult to manage >> in terms of software packaging and software updates. > > Please don't mix "difficult to edit" and "manage programmatically". As I > have said, having support for "include *.conf.d" makes sense for 3rd-party > software (read: ports), but has little need for the base, and IMHO brings > more maintenance burden than any benefit. Can you please provide an example of how it’s more burdensome going to .conf.d? Personally, I think it’s a whole lot easier doing `rm -f /etc/newsyslog.d/amd.conf`, than it is to open up the file and edit out the amd entries, or invoke sed/something else to do the same thing. Even ansible/chef/puppet would have to bake the configuration removal logic into its template files, which seems like a pain for folks (and the same logic would need to be implemented multiple times instead of once). Thanks, -Ngie [-- Attachment #2 --] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJZF0CeAAoJEPWDqSZpMIYVfVIP+wQ8wESMVwC2Zj2KoU0Xs8O3 S5gMXTBLJocE1As2VayrlLp6L03ZkdCTAkrds50klDzr4rTagf4aeuf1g86pw5b4 c17cdVKUFnsTpOnnQu8q/wCuHQoQJ2Zsj/Zb2CPW6nb9hdeOl28AXoyUU7B0YSVm nDXOl9lKxL6CjXvWPOcMHwid7nczupWF3dRnSbxr/+pmCx6VIQ4witsGmOJg3rsi C4vTkInHNHL9o8m2rJmJD4BaVPJnVoh2oFTFg+2kSBVvKmGeHo8omVTy7EpDIpVC 0NVyJV/GvtWsw6sO+aQSdHHJJn56X2lPZh0aopmgSA/rjl/61KjXOjOqMpvCjdDm QULup/DBtPqOdag0UEGfA/1b6Q9QLApnWPRyPKCpP3L2V7EH/Sy2C7dYGGobsMqK ljEjB6DKTCgwXIiYcQqqB/mjV6uR/Wh5kQfURLlc7e6GDI2z66axGfaeY/fnIkar ZxJxzQz0nVglV9aShF8ArvDNavz8/C3ISGOoK+clJ7/hhdAjTy3xZjevD0MYkx4n PZSxc4pMXzCjZA9PlW+5Nl6D/zaIKofCjxjHNWksjaWp/oy5PreCsBUTDfoNYhZa 6d9TUIOJb78vfZT9rj9flbxsexfmJeUcMixzu2fH+E6EZoi6q8mc36KRKvUKmUhK BHPCw3rAZ3eklEAsGmGN =bZit -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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