Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 12:27:40 +0100 From: Dima Pasechnik <dimpase+freebsd@gmail.com> To: Gleb Popov <arrowd@freebsd.org> Cc: Dima Pasechnik <dimpase+freebsd@gmail.com>, current@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Core Team <core@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Core: Yes please, Code of Conduct committee: No Thanks. Message-ID: <CAAWYfq3cQSZkWfY5wVFj_U7amMeR4AsjYk6MRim27=DaaJabcg@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CALH631=iyrjuFJ__zvhsjfqPhpj4M1hWjU68t5SBUZPmcFKwvw@mail.gmail.com> References: <868svf6r05.fsf@phe.ftfl.ca> <201905111423.x4BEND1t058226@fire.js.berklix.net> <CAAWYfq2vTDtzhm4NxE_3wjA4_PBY-VF26cVjP8HN_h3pLssipg@mail.gmail.com> <CALH631=iyrjuFJ__zvhsjfqPhpj4M1hWjU68t5SBUZPmcFKwvw@mail.gmail.com>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 11:47 AM Gleb Popov <arrowd@freebsd.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 2:28 PM Dima Pasechnik <dimpase+freebsd@gmail.com=
> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 3:25 PM Julian H. Stacey <jhs@berklix.com> wrote=
:
>> >
>> > FreeBSD Core Team Secretary wrote:
>> > > The FreeBSD Core Team is aware of recent controversial statements ma=
de
>> > > on social media by a FreeBSD developer. We, along with the Code of
>> > > Conduct review committee, are investigating the matter and will deci=
de
>> > > what action to take. Both the Core Team and the FreeBSD Foundation
>> > > would like to make it clear that views shared by individuals represe=
nt
>> > > neither the Project nor the Foundation.
>> >
>> > Core@ statements always welcome.
>> >
>> > But Code of Conduct committee merit no automatic credence since:
>> >
>> > Code of Conduct aims were cloned from an ultra feminist group of
>> > non FreeBSD members, part paid by foundation, then shoved on
>> > FreeBSD before discussion, by a voluble few in FreeBSD
>>
>> The present matter has nothing to do with feminism.
>
>
> I don't see who states that.
>
>> Anyway, as someone
>> who has been chased upon by a gang of youths screaming "zhidovskaya
>> morda" ("Jewish snout") (Moscow, USSR, circa 1975, tough
>> neighbourhood, and well, I have a Jewish grandmother) I absolutely do
>> not appreciate the sort of thoughtless "freedom of speech" blah blah,
>> as far as expressions of hate towards particular ethnic groups are .
>
>
> Just wondering how old were you and "haters" were. In my childhood I was =
laughed on because having too big ears, another girl - because she was fat,=
and another guy - because his dad was an alcoholic. I'd argue that being b=
ulled by "jewish snout" words instead of "fatty" puts you in some special p=
osition amongst these people and me.
> Yes, the phenomenom is bad in its nature, but it is also so common and in=
significant, that IMO it doesn't serve all that fuss.
My CV may be found online at the link after the signature - I am 56
y.o., and I did experience a fair share of state-amplified and
condoned antisemitism back in USSR (apart from this incident). There
was no state-condoned hate of people with big ears or excessive
weight, and this does make quite some difference.
As to "it is also so common" --- this is the 1st time in more than 27
years, since I left Moscow, that this topic interferes with my
work. While it might be "so common" to you, it does not remove the
hate from the hate speech it is.
>
>> Because they always incite violence.
>> And yes, in USSR persons with ethnically Jewish parents had "Jew"
>> written in their internal IDs (just like in Nazi Germany). Under this
>> commonly accepted definition, saying "I hate Jews", as Mr. Kamp did on
>> twitter, is full-blown racism,
>
>
> I'd like to hear how it is "commonly accepted". I don't remember acceptin=
g anything related.
Are you trying to tell us that "5th paragraph", ethnicity, never was
present in internal USSR passports?
Of course it was, and on the basis of this I dare to say that my
definition was commonly accepted in the USSR.
And in present days Europe "jew" need not refer to a religious affiliation.
(about 40% of Israeli citizens describe themselves as secular, by the way).
>
>> and Mr. Kamp ought to offer an apology
>> for this - while he does not do it in
>> http://phk.freebsd.dk/sagas/israel/
>>
>> While in some jurisdictions hate speech is legally protected, it does
>> not take away the hate in hate speech, and people generally don't like
>> being hated. Hate originating from a freebsd.* domain is not good for
>> the project.
>
>
> freebsd.* domain can be registered by any individual, so hate originating=
from such domains can't (well, shouldn't) affect the project in any way.
> On the contrary, hate originating from *.freebsd.org, it does affect the =
project. Luckily, this is not the case.
>
>>
>> Let me point few things in the latter:
>>
>> * there is nothing like "the jewish religion" - there is a religion
>> called Judaism, as Mr. Kamp ought to understand before
>> making statements on these. Everyone can convert to Judaism, by the way.
>
>
> Thanks for valuable information. It is completely off-topic and I doubt a=
nyone here have any interest in this.
As Mr. Kamp's blog post is being discussed here, I felt it might be
appropriate to point out why it was an attempt
to whitewash hate speech, rather than an explanation of an innocent
misunderstanding.
Regards,
Dima
>
>>
>> * Jews who are not Israeli citizens are about as responsible for
>> policies of Israel as descendants of Vikings are responsible for
>> policies of Scandinavian states of today.
>>
>> * I don't know anything about the legal status of the domain
>> "freebsd.dk" --- nevertheless I don't think it does do much good to
>> the reputation of FreeBSD to have these slightly illiterate writings
>> there (although it might be bringing Mr.Kamp lucrative contracts from
>> such pillars of democracy and free thought and speech as Saudi Arabia,
>> Syria, and Iran :-))
>>
>> Best,
>> Dima
>> http://users.ox.ac.uk/~coml0531/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > The new CoC terms were hotly disputed. core@ failed to remove it
>> > before many tuned out, despairing of the politics [& lack of core@
>> > backbone, probably themselves scared of being labeled anti-whatever]=
,
>> >
>> > New CoC putch-ists took seats on CoC
>> >
>> > FreeBSD had a CoC before the putch with the new feminist etc CoC.
>> > https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html
>> > CoC could be replaced with the old one from SVN, or from
>> > https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://www.freebsd.org/internal=
/code-of-conduct.html
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Julian
>> > --
>> > Julian Stacey, Consultant Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich Aac=
hen Kent
>> > http://stolenvotes.uk Brexit ref. stole votes from 700,000 Brits in =
EU.
>> > Lies bought; Groups fined; 1.9 M young had no vote, 1.3 M old leavers=
died.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list
>> > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current
>> > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.=
org"
>> _______________________________________________
>> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list
>> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current
>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.or=
g"
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?CAAWYfq3cQSZkWfY5wVFj_U7amMeR4AsjYk6MRim27=DaaJabcg>