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Date:      Wed, 29 May 2002 08:26:39 +0200
From:      Rahul Siddharthan <rsidd@online.fr>
To:        Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@FreeBSD.org>
Cc:        David Schultz <dschultz@uclink.Berkeley.EDU>, Giorgos Keramidas <keramida@FreeBSD.ORG>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Language in danger: Language loss
Message-ID:  <20020529062638.GA8243@lpt.ens.fr>
In-Reply-To: <20020529123150.F82424@wantadilla.lemis.com>
References:  <3CF1CD8C.C3262181@mindspring.com> <20020527014353.B1951@HAL9000.wox.org> <20020528091410.G29491@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20020528001001.GA20175@hades.hell.gr> <20020528095208.A16567@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20020527175613.A1214@HAL9000.wox.org> <20020528102802.K16567@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20020527184817.A1485@HAL9000.wox.org> <20020528104311.A37937@lpt.ens.fr> <20020529123150.F82424@wantadilla.lemis.com>

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Greg 'groggy' Lehey said on May 29, 2002 at 12:31:50:
> > In French it's normal to drop accents when it's inconvenient to write
> > them (and, often, in capital letters even when it is possible to write
> > them).
> 
> Yes, French is different in that way.  One of the reasons is that
> they're accents, not different letters, and there's little ambiguity
> if you leave them out.  That's not the case in German: they are
> different letters, and changing the letters makes the words ambiguous.
> For example, "Rachen" means "throat" and "Rächen" (or "Raechen" if you
> don't have the characters) means "Avenge".

Well, in French "ā" means "at" and "a" means "(third person) has".
"Parle" (speak, present tense) is different from "parlé" (participle).
The slogan of the bus company in Grenoble, "Nous allons oų vous allez"
means "we go where you go", but if you dropped the accent it would
mean "we go or you go".  That doesn't stop people from dropping the
accent when on an inappropriate keyboard, or when writing in capitals
unless they badly want to avoid confusion (eg the Grenoble bus company
uses the accent even in capital letters). 

> > It makes sense to me.  "Godel" is the normal spelling in English.
> 
> It's not an English word.

He lived in America for the latter part of his life, and chose that
spelling (at least the evidence suggests so).  Many people choose to
spell their names explicitly with "oe" when writing in languages other
than German (the drug company Hoechst does so consistently, even in
Germany, I think), but that really became common only in recent decades.  

> > I agree, every language distorts foreign words and foreign names.
> > French is by far the worst offender I've seen (eg, "Jean-Sebastien
> > Bach," and I'm not even getting started on names from non-Roman
> > scripts like Indian languages).  English by and large is not so bad;
> > it doesn't have accents "natively", so it's not terribly necessary to
> > use them, in my opinion; and unless you're a trained German writer,
> > the most obvious way out is to drop them altogether.
> 
> It may be obvious, but that makes it neither correct nor desirable.

You're suggesting that everyone who refers to a German name should
know the rules of German spelling, which is ridiculous in this
globalized day.  Either Gödel himself should have spelt it "Goedel"
(he did not), or the rest of us should feel free to drop the accent.
It's the same with "Schrödinger" which is often written without the
accent but almost never written "Schroedinger."  As for Handel being
written "Händel", that may be true in Germany but not in
English-speaking countries.

- Rahul

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