Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 16:17:42 -0400 From: "Mikhail T." <mi+thun@aldan.algebra.com> To: Jeremy Chadwick <freebsd@jdc.parodius.com> Cc: re@freebsd.org, tom@hur.st, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-usb@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 8.x grudges Message-ID: <4C34E0E6.9070801@aldan.algebra.com> In-Reply-To: <20100707185928.GA16180@icarus.home.lan> References: <4C34C5DE.7040007@aldan.algebra.com> <20100707185928.GA16180@icarus.home.lan>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000305090006040403060807 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 07.07.2010 14:59, Jeremy Chadwick ???????(??): >> FREEBSD_COMPAT7 kernel option is, apparently, a requirement (and >> thus not an "option") -- the kernel-config files, that worked with >> 7.x, break without this option in them (in addition to all the >> nuisance, that's documented in UPDATING -- which, somehow, makes >> the breakage acceptable). config(8) would not warn about this, but >> kernel build fails. >> > We don't use this option (meaning it's removed from our kernels). It's > definitely not required. All it does is ensure your kernel can > comprehend executables/binaries built on 7.x. > Attached is the kernel config-file (i386), that worked fine under 7.x. The kernel-compile will break (some *freebsd7* structs undefined), without the COMPAT_FREEBSD7 option. Try it for yourself... >> 3. Likewise, having "device ugen" breaks config(8) -- another >> undocumented incompatibility. >> > This sounds like you not including all of the necessary USB/device > framework in your kernel configuration. You're not providing enough > output for us to help diagnose the problem, though. > Put "device ugen" back into the attached kernel-config file and see config's error yourself. >> 4. The sio(4) is described in UPDATING as "removed", but rouses no >> complaint from config(8) either. It just breaks the kernel >> build... It should be an alias for uart, IMHO -- all I want is for >> my serial ports to be usable, whether their driver is called >> "Serial Input/Output" or "Universal Asynchronous Receiver and >> Transmitter". >> > I disagree (re: "it should be an alias"). sio(4) is deprecated (meaning > it's not used by default any more), and it's left in the driver tree > solely as a fall-back method if someone runs into uart(4) problems. If it were merely "deprecated" it would've still worked. It does not -- put "device sio" into the attached kernel-config and try building -- you'll get the compile-error. Whether deliberately or through bit-rot, uart /replaced/ sio... > I'll take a moment to point out that your complaints about the kernel > configuration file, so far, seem to stem from you not "migrating" your > kernel configuration from 7.x to 8.x. Things change -- that's the > reality of the situation. > > The way I do this is, when upgrading major releases (7.x->8.x), to > "start fresh" using GENERIC as my base template and then > adding/adjusting while comparing against the older kernels' config. > Others do it differently, this is just how I do it. > Yes, your way is fine. But so is mine. It is perfectly reasonable to expect my method to work just as well -- the 7->8 is not revolutionary, but simply the next step. I read the "UPDATING" file and, though annoyed a little, took care of things mentioned in there... The remaining things are enumerated here... >> (BTW, about the /dev-entries -- do we /really/ have to change the >> names of the serial port-devices every couple of years? It is >> rather painful to reconfigure the fax- and ppp-software, etc.) How >> does the Microsoft world manage to stay with the COM1, COM2 for >> decades?) >> > Like I said: things change. > Well, pardon the political pun, but I don't believe in change for the sake of change. These particular changes are gratuitous. If sio is no longer available -- and replaced by uart, why change the /dev-entries?.. >> 5. One of the upgraded systems would repeatedly hang at boot, until I >> disabled the on-board firewire-device through the BIOS... It was >> not a problem under 7.x, although I don't know, whether the device >> actually worked. >> > This is a commonly-reported problem, assuming "at boot" you mean "while > the kernel is starting". Or unless you're using a certain model of > Shuttle box, but that turned out to be literally a BIOS bug: > > http://koitsu.wordpress.com/2009/05/22/shuttle-sg45h7-firewire-bug-in-bios-sg45u10o/ > No, this is not it /at all/. The link above describes a crash in the BIOS (and no POST), if firewire circuitry is disabled in BIOS. My problem is with FreeBSD kernel hanging on boot, if the firewire circuitry is enabled in BIOS. The boot was fine under 7.x, so this can not be due to a BIOS-bug -- the only thing, that changed, is the OS... > This is also a commonly-reported problem (and one I've harped on as > well). When you say "during boot": does it work during loader (the > screen with the "FreeBSD" logo on it)? > Yes. > If the keyboard works during loader but not once the kernel + kernel USB > stack loads (e.g. when booting into single-user), then look at the very > bottom of this page for a couple things to try: > > http://wiki.freebsd.org/BugBusting/Commonly_reported_issues > Will do, thanks! Still, I was hoping, things will "just work" with 8.1... > Regardless, this is one of the reasons I still have not made the move to > USB keyboards and stick with PS/2 keyboards on FreeBSD. > While renovating the house, I ran USB-, audio-, and video-cables through the walls from "server room" to the office, so I can sit in front of the monitors and keyboard/mouse, while the actual computers are well insulated behind closed door. PS/2 cables can't run the same length, it turns out... >> 7. All my "dangerously dedicated" disks lost the "s1" in the >> subdevice-names after the upgrade: /dev/da1s1d became /dev/da1d, >> etc. I like the shorter names (and there are, indeed, no "slices" >> there), but having to fix them manually upon reboot was unpleasant >> and uncalled for. As with uart/sio, backward-compatibility aliases >> are a fine idea and really improves user's experience... >> > Again: things change. > Again: this particular change seems gratuitous. > "Dangerously dedicated" disks are commonly deprecated at this point (as > I understand it folks are trying to get away from them). GEOM takes > care of this situation better than it used to. Yes, the "taking care" part is fine -- the filesystems all work. But the renaming is unwelcome. > Re: aliases: see above. > The only talk of aliases "above" was regarding sio/uart -- you said, sio is deprecated, but could exist alongside uart. That argument (however flawed it was, in my above-expressed opinion) does not apply here... >> 8. I tried to do an install on one of the systems via netbooting >> (pxeload) the disk1-image. It booted, but the sysinstall had to beclaimed >> started manually and, once started, did not act the same as when >> booted off of CD-ROM. Seems like a simple bit to correct so that >> setting "init" to /usr/sbin/sysinstall/manually on every boot/ is >> not necessary... >> > Can't reproduce: > http://jdc.parodius.com/freebsd/pxeboot_serial_install.html > Yes, you can -- you extract the CD-image there <http://jdc.parodius.com/freebsd/pxeboot_serial_install_8.html#step4>; (doubling the storage requirements), and then modify the loader.conf <http://jdc.parodius.com/freebsd/pxeboot_serial_install_8.html#step6>. That modification should not be necessary -- the thing ought to figure the situation out automatically. That it does not (not quite), was my complaint, although I was following a different recipe <http://www.freebsdwiki.net/index.php/Installing_FreeBSD_with_netboot>. > > Try loading the kernel module amdtemp and see if things improve. Be > sure to read the man page. > Loading amdtemp was not necessary on the Opteron system, where the k8temp utility "just works" even after the upgrade. Doing it did not help the Athlon system, where k8temp continues to not work... Yours, -mi --------------000305090006040403060807 Content-Type: text/plain; name="Quokka" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Quokka" # # GENERIC -- Generic kernel configuration file for FreeBSD/i386 # # For more information on this file, please read the handbook section on # Kernel Configuration Files: # # http://www.FreeBSD.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/kernelconfig-config.html # # The handbook is also available locally in /usr/share/doc/handbook # if you've installed the doc distribution, otherwise always see the # FreeBSD World Wide Web server (http://www.FreeBSD.org/) for the # latest information. # # An exhaustive list of options and more detailed explanations of the # device lines is also present in the ../../conf/NOTES and NOTES files. # If you are in doubt as to the purpose or necessity of a line, check first # in NOTES. # # $FreeBSD: src/sys/i386/conf/GENERIC,v 1.474.2.18 2009/06/18 06:03:58 yongari Exp $ #cpu I486_CPU #cpu I586_CPU cpu I686_CPU ident Quokka # To statically compile in device wiring instead of /boot/device.hints #hints "GENERIC.hints" # Default places to look for devices. makeoptions DEBUG=-g # Build kernel with gdb(1) debug symbols options SCHED_ULE # ULE scheduler options PREEMPTION # Enable kernel thread preemption options INET # InterNETworking #options INET6 # IPv6 communications protocols options SCTP # Stream Control Transmission Protocol options FFS # Berkeley Fast Filesystem options SOFTUPDATES # Enable FFS soft updates support options UFS_ACL # Support for access control lists options UFS_DIRHASH # Improve performance on big directories #options UFS_GJOURNAL # Enable gjournal-based UFS journaling #options MD_ROOT # MD is a potential root device options NFSCLIENT # Network Filesystem Client options NFSSERVER # Network Filesystem Server options NFSLOCKD # Network Lock Manager #options NFS_ROOT # NFS usable as /, requires NFSCLIENT options MSDOSFS # MSDOS Filesystem options CD9660 # ISO 9660 Filesystem options PROCFS # Process filesystem (requires PSEUDOFS) options PSEUDOFS # Pseudo-filesystem framework #options GEOM_PART_GPT # GUID Partition Tables. #options GEOM_LABEL # Provides labelization options COMPAT_43TTY # BSD 4.3 TTY compat [KEEP THIS!] options COMPAT_FREEBSD5 # Compatible with FreeBSD5 options COMPAT_FREEBSD6 # Compatible with FreeBSD6 options COMPAT_FREEBSD7 # Compatible with FreeBSD6 options SCSI_DELAY=5000 # Delay (in ms) before probing SCSI options KTRACE # ktrace(1) support options STACK # stack(9) support options SYSVSHM # SYSV-style shared memory options SYSVMSG # SYSV-style message queues options SYSVSEM # SYSV-style semaphores options _KPOSIX_PRIORITY_SCHEDULING # POSIX P1003_1B real-time extensions options KBD_INSTALL_CDEV # install a CDEV entry in /dev #options AUDIT # Security event auditing #options KDTRACE_HOOKS # Kernel DTrace hooks # To make an SMP kernel, the next two lines are needed #options SMP # Symmetric MultiProcessor Kernel #device apic # I/O APIC # CPU frequency control device cpufreq # Bus support. #device eisa device pci # Floppy drives device fdc # ATA and ATAPI devices device ata device atadisk # ATA disk drives #device ataraid # ATA RAID drives device atapicd # ATAPI CDROM drives #device atapifd # ATAPI floppy drives #device atapist # ATAPI tape drives options ATA_STATIC_ID # Static device numbering # SCSI peripherals device scbus # SCSI bus (required for SCSI) device da # Direct Access (disks) device cd # CD device pass # Passthrough device (direct SCSI access) # atkbdc0 controls both the keyboard and the PS/2 mouse device atkbdc # AT keyboard controller device atkbd # AT keyboard device psm # PS/2 mouse device kbdmux # keyboard multiplexer device vga # VGA video card driver device splash # Splash screen and screen saver support # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc device agp # support several AGP chipsets # Power management support (see NOTES for more options) device apm # Add suspend/resume support for the i8254. device ipmi device smapi device smbios device pmtimer # Adjust system timer at wakeup time device smb device smbus device nfpm device nfsmb # Serial (COM) ports device uart # Generic UART driver # Parallel port device ppc device ppbus # Parallel port bus (required) device lpt # Printer #device plip # TCP/IP over parallel #device ppi # Parallel port interface device #device vpo # Requires scbus and da # PCI Ethernet NICs that use the common MII bus controller code. # NOTE: Be sure to keep the 'device miibus' line in order to use these NICs! device miibus # MII bus support #device nfe # nVidia nForce MCP on-board Ethernet device nve # nVidia nForce MCP on-board Ethernet device fxp # Pseudo devices. device loop # Network loopback device random # Entropy device device ether # Ethernet support #device sl # Kernel SLIP #device ppp # Kernel PPP device tun # Packet tunnel. device pty # Pseudo-ttys (telnet etc) device md # Memory "disks" #device gif # IPv6 and IPv4 tunneling #device faith # IPv6-to-IPv4 relaying (translation) device firmware # firmware assist module # The `bpf' device enables the Berkeley Packet Filter. # Be aware of the administrative consequences of enabling this! # Note that 'bpf' is required for DHCP. device bpf # Berkeley packet filter # USB support #device uhci # UHCI PCI->USB interface device ohci # OHCI PCI->USB interface device ehci # EHCI PCI->USB interface (USB 2.0) device usb # USB Bus (required) #device udbp # USB Double Bulk Pipe devices device uhid # "Human Interface Devices" device ukbd # Keyboard device ulpt # Printer device umass # Disks/Mass storage - Requires scbus and da device ums # Mouse # FireWire support device firewire # FireWire bus code device sbp # SCSI over FireWire (Requires scbus and da) device fwe # Ethernet over FireWire (non-standard!) device fwip # IP over FireWire (RFC 2734,3146) device dcons # Dumb console driver device dcons_crom # Configuration ROM for dcons device sound device snd_ich --------------000305090006040403060807--
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?4C34E0E6.9070801>