Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:10:38 -0600 From: Blaine Minazzi <bminazzi@denverweb.net> To: Robin Melville <robmel@nadt.org.uk> Cc: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" <ejs@bfd.com>, Sysadmin <danlaw@rust.net>, isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How many customers read news (was Re: News...) Message-ID: <335E7ACE.5E39F6BD@denverweb.net> References: <1.5.4.32.19970423135513.0070a910@wrcmail>
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Robin Melville wrote: > > At 13:38 22/04/97 -0700, Eric J. Schwertfeger wrote: > >.... People every day get cash seized simply because it was > >suspicious that they had that much cash on them. Charges are never filed > >against the property owner in 90% of property seizure cases, because of > >insufficient evidence. But does that mean the people get the seized > >property back? Nope, because the case against the property is not the > >same as the case against the person, and the property does not have the > >right of due process... > > I've never heard of anything so ludicrous... surely this is contrary to the > US Consitution/Bill of Rights. If it isn't then it's legalised theft. Yep. It is in direct violation of the 4th amendment, and it happens all the time. Why do you think were talking about the issue. If the government wants to f*&k you over, you are screwed. They mostly do it in the name of "drug enforcement", for now anyway. When they turn their attention to ISP's because of groups like OCAF or whatever, we can become just as big a targets. That, and the bandwidth waste, is why I don't want a damn thing to do with binaries on usenet. Just not worth it, IMHO. The government has shafted BBS operators, and some ISP's, over just a few illegal images. Yet some say, it can't or won't, happen to me. For whatever reason, these people seem to think that they are either; a: Big enough to get into a pissing contest with the federales. b: Immune, and that our US constitution is still intact. Both views are based in some form of warped reality, IMO. Even the smallest little piss ant township, and local sherriff, could shut you down with a seizure of your equipment as evidence. Some judges and law enforcement agencies don't care about the constitution. They can seize, then delay, and by the time you get it back, IF you get it back, you have no customers anyway. If there is anyone out there who does not believe that things have gotten this bad in the US, I suggest you research it a bit. You will be amazed/shocked/depressed. Usenet, im my opinion, will become the biggest nightmare for ISP's, if they continue to ignore the warning signs. Until we have a clear cut ruling or law that would make us immune, you store these things at your own peril. This thread is starting to get stale, and I apologize for my part in the long disscussions here. Many of the "lurkers" on the group might have recieved some food for thought. As for the suggestions that we take it to private CC mail... Well, at least in this group, there is still freedom to talk about topics that are relevant to ISP's running FreeBSD. This is one such topic, IMHO. ( Besides, I have seen longer threads... Remember the FreeBSD vs. Dedicated Router stuff??? ) Well, I am not going to rant anymore. if someone is not persuaded, nothing short of striped sunlight will likely change their mind anyway. ( sigh. ) Y'all have a good week. Blaine
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