Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:45:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com> To: grog@lemis.com Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Tiananmen square (was: Does it's true?) Message-ID: <199806300345.VAA24697@softweyr.com> In-Reply-To: <19980629143707.Q897@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19980629143707.Q897@freebie.lemis.com>
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My hidden microphone recorded Greg Lehey (grog@lemis.com) saying:
% 1. Forced abortion and forced sterilization. For Christians, of
% course, an abomination. In China, quite possibly law. Yes, I can
% believe they do this. After seeing what has happened in the 30
% years between my two visits to India, I can understand the Chinese
% view.
There are absolute wrongs in this life, and the killing of innocents is at the
top of the list.
% 2. "Simply killed outright". Did she bring documentation of this as
% well? How often? Where? Why? If they had the power to kill,
% they had the power to anaesthetize and sterilize.
Yes, she did. It apparently happened "several times" in her tenure, with
women who were so hysterical the clinic staff could not deal with them. The
clinic staff called the police, and the police killed these women. This was
apparently done to discourage violent resistance. These killings were
apparently documented in the medical records of these women kept by the
clinic.
% I think this shows the degree to which people can adapt to adverse
% circumstances. I think your experiences (first hand, and thus *much*
% more plausible) are very frightening, not so much for what happened to
% you (nothing) as for the fact that it happened twice in "safe" cities,
% and because of your lack of concern about it. I've been in lots of
% places in the world, and nothing like that has ever happened to me.
In actuality, the knife-point stickup could be a poster for the NRA: the man
approached me as I was stopped at a traffic light, stuck a knife in the window
and asked for my wallet. I told him it was in the "jockey box", carefully
reached over and withdrew my 9mm pistol, which I stuffed into his face. He
sat down in surprise, and I departed VERY quickly. I've often wondered if I
managed to drive over his legs, but didn't think to check at the time.
This happened in a neighborhood in Seattle that bordered between three
differing racial groups, and was quite tense in those days. Being there at
1:00 am was probably not a great decision, but was the shortest route to work.
I drove it every night for 3 years, and that was the only problem I ever
encountered. That fits my definition of "chance encounter" quite well.
The cinderblock incident I mentioned, however, was only one of many acts of
premeditated violence that took place during that time, several of which I
have physical scars from. Institutionalized violence frightens me far more
than the random meanderings of morally deficient individuals, but I have grown
up in a country where institutionalized violence is relatively rare, and
generally condemned.
% > I see the quality of life in the Salt Lake Valley diminishing
% > rapidly, and have been looking for an upgrade path for several years
% > now. While I try to be as open-minded as possible, I certainly
% > won't be moving my family to some totalitarian dunghole with zero
% > respect for human rights like China.
%
% Again, I think this is based on a lack of understanding, certainly
% helped by the US media's reports.
But you see, I don't pay much attention to the US media's reports. The only
"news" program I watch on a regular (more than once a month) basis is "Meet
the Press," and you'll never find them covering anything like this. I don't
read newspapers, most of them are a waste of the paper they're printed on. I
listen to the radio in the morning to hear about today's weather and which
parts of the local highway system have been dismantled during my sleep, and I
surf the web for news. I find the best world coverage typically comes from
British sources, and look for reports from BBC world news. I often find their
coverage of US politics quite amusing, too.
% >>> Let's not forget where the criminals in China are - the government
% >>> itself.
% >>
% >> I think that claim needs a little justification.
% >
% > See the above-mentioned report by the Chinese "welfare worker."
%
% Let's see a URL or something. I'm not denying that this happened.
% After all, even in Australia (and quite possibly in the US) forced
% sterilizations have been practised. The difference is that in
% Australia they had only a very tenuous legal basis.
I'll call the local affiliates and find out which network aired the segment.
I doubt you'll find them on-line; they make money charging for their
typewritten transcripts.
Greg
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Wes Peters Softweyr LLC
http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com
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