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Date:      Sat, 6 Jan 2001 19:11:57 +0100
From:      Wilko Bulte <wkb@freebie.demon.nl>
To:        "Bruce A. Mah" <bmah@freebsd.org>
Cc:        freebsd-doc@freebsd.org, wilko@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: RELNOTESng update
Message-ID:  <20010106191157.F76196@freebie.demon.nl>
In-Reply-To: <200101061735.f06HZUg34503@bmah-freebsd-0.cisco.com>; from bmah@freebsd.org on Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 09:35:30AM -0800
References:  <200101051950.f05Jo0H24919@bmah-freebsd-0.cisco.com> <20010106001658.A70625@freebie.demon.nl> <200101061735.f06HZUg34503@bmah-freebsd-0.cisco.com>

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On Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 09:35:30AM -0800, Bruce A. Mah wrote:
> If memory serves me right, Wilko Bulte wrote:

> > > 2.  The Supported Hardware lists from HARDWARE.TXT and RELNOTES.TXT 
> > > have been combined.
> > 
> > For alpha I have my doubts about this. There is far too much 
> > untested hardware on alpha, and experience has shown that x86 != alpha
> > even when would expect no cpu-port specifics. This is fundamental
> > problem because we lack a wide alpha user base. And hence lack widespread
> > testing of hardware.
> 
> Perhaps I was unclear.  The problem I was trying to address was that a
> device we support could show up in at least four places:
> 
> 	src/release/texts/HARDWARE.TXT
> 	src/release/texts/alpha/RELNOTES.TXT
> 	src/release/texts/i386/RELNOTES.TXT
> 	doc/en_US.ISO_8859-1/books/handbook/install
> 
> Ergo, if we start supporting a new device, we need to edit as many as
> four files, and that's *before* the translation teams get to the
> handbook.

Agreed, this stinks. 

> Jim Mock was talking about nuking the section of the handbook with this
> information.  I support this.  For the remaining three TXT files, my

I support this as well.

> goal was to take the union of HARDWARE.TXT and i386/RELNOTES.TXT (which
> should be, but are not, consistent), and to use conditionals to make the
> result consistent with alpha/RELNOTES.TXT when we build for that
> platform.  The result is that we only have *one* source file for our
> Supported Hardware list.  (Note that this doesn't preclude the
> information showing up in multiple documents, should we want this.)
> 
> If you're concerned that some people have been adding devices to the
> alpha list without actually verifying whether or not they work, mea
> culpa, I've probably done this.  In the future, new devices get
> surrounded by the appropriate conditional unless there's strong reason
> to believe they've actually been tested on multiple architectures.  An

Sounds like the way to go.

> example of where (I think) this is done right is the Adaptec SCSI
> controllers, as well as the newer RAID controllers.

Mike tends to test on Alpha, so that is good quality control. I'd like to go
like: if it has not been tested on alpha it is not in the alpha version 
of the docs.

> > Good idea.
> 
> Except that our release notes are now 40+ pages long in PDF format.  :-p

Hmm. I myself (YMMV) don't like relnotes the size of Encyclopedia
Brittanica. But I *hate* incomplete release notes. 

> > > like to know people's thoughts about folding this in as well
> > > (particularly from Wilko, since he's maintaining it).
> > 
> > I'm more than willing to convert alpha/HARDWARE.TXT into the right 
> > input format. Assuming I'm allowed to bug someone about the right formatting
> > tools etc ;-)
> 
> I learned from reading Nik's FDP Primer.  IMHO, DocBook/SGML is like
> HTML with different (and more) tags.  (Pause for groans from the "real"
> -doc committers.)  If you bug me, at least you'll get another newbie's
> perspective.

We'll see. I'll wait a bit till we have other people's inputs.

> > I do not want to pull the HW.TXT into the Relnotes. I don't think that this
> > is a good idea. For me release notes are a thing that should be as small and
> > comprehensive as possible. More static info, like details on hardware
> > support etc, should be kept seperate. 
> 
> I was leaning towards putting everything in a single file, but my
> enthusiasm for this is starting to wane.  It sounds like you would like
> the Supported Hardware list out of the release notes and have the users
> read this in exactly one document, which would be analogous to
> HARDWARE.TXT (and which would also contain the content from alpha/
> HARDWARE.TXT).  Is that right?  I think I could go for that, but I'd

Yes, let's not overload relnotes.

> like to hear from Nik and Jordan as well.

Seconded.

> that it can handle multiple documents.  But that's not necessarily bad. 
> While we're at it, we could think about supporting eventual 
> translations.  (Pause for groans from the translation teams.)

There should not be much translation work in lists of supported hardware.

> > > 3.  At some point, I'll need to talk to someone who's familiar with
> > > "make release" to see about how to integrate this into the build.  It'll
> > 
> > You want someone to look at that, no doubt. I've had some, um, interesting
> > discussions with David when I screwed up the release makefile during
> > introduction of alpha's HW.TXT. My bad, but not something to repeat.
> 
> Oh yeah, gonna try real hard not to break release or world.

Good luck!

-- 
|   / o / /  _  	 Arnhem, The Netherlands    	email: wilko@freebsd.org
|/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte	 http://www.freebsd.org 	http://www.nlfug.nl


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