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Date:      Fri, 15 May 1998 22:57:38 -0500 (EST)
From:      "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>
To:        jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly)
Cc:        toor@dyson.iquest.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: commercial software (definitive)
Message-ID:  <199805160357.WAA15606@dyson.iquest.net>
In-Reply-To: <355dec23.77822475@mail.cetlink.net> from John Kelly at "May 16, 98 01:37:55 am"

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> On Fri, 15 May 1998 20:19:07 -0500 (EST), "John S. Dyson"
> <toor@dyson.iquest.net> wrote:
> 
> >> The limitations appear to be imaginary.  Red Hat and Caldera don't
> >> seem to have trouble selling products which include GPLed code.
> >> 
> >They aren't inventing very much.
> 
> For that matter, neither is Walnut Creek.
>
And I am not funded by WC, for example.  I am funded by an organization
whose interest is to make money partially upon invention.  Much of my work
gets folded into FreeBSD, but we do reserve the right until the last minute
to choose not to include the work.  Note that FreeBSD != WC, but 
treats FreeBSD very very kindly and fairly.  This is as much a good-will
arrangement as anything.

> 
> >The limitations have to do with the redistribution encumberances
> >placed upon inventions derived associated with GPLed works (among
> >others.)
> 
> I like an "encumbrance" which prohibits others from hiding the source
> code of derivative works.
>
I don't.  I think that their inventiveness is their business, and
the need to somehow force or trick people to give up the fruits of their
inventiveness is a canard.  Note that the availability of net-support
of newly invented or enhanced works is enough of an enticement.  The
encumberances of heavy handed licenses aren't necessary and are quite
restrictive.  One thing that I have found in business over the years is
that flexibility is very valuable.

> 
> >They have made a tradeoff that interferes with conventional business
> >plans.
> 
> Conventional business has little future in today's fast moving world.
> 
I disagree.  Business can cooperate more easily with free software if
the work isn't immediately encumbered by licenses that take freedom
and choice away.  Companies blasting and selling CDROM's are nowhere near
paying the cost of development of the various OSes.  WC happens to be helping
and being very generous to FreeBSD, but is not supporting the vast majority
of development.

Companies who are contributing to FreeBSD, when using it in product, are doing
so because they can freely choose from time to time to keep the works private
or not, along with the fact that FreeBSD is being contributed to by other
companies who have such freedom.  When GPLed parts of the system have to be
hacked on, it is understood apriori that the work will not be a part of the
competitive advantage.  A good example of this cooperation using FreeBSD
is amongst two potential competitors in the NC or pseudo-NC business, and
both products are better because of the cooperation.  However, each business
keeps their proprietary or strategic inventions private, so each gets
the best of both worlds.  The loss to the community of these inventions is
nill, because those features aren't needed in a general purpose OS.  There is
NO risk of GPL contamination here, and it is doing both the free software
and commercial software communities good.

The CDROM manufacturers help enable the synergy that makes it desirable
to contribute free software back into the community.  Encumbering licenses
aren't needed for established projects.  In un-established projects, where
the original creator needs better protection, there are better licenses than
the BSDL, but that isn't what we are talking about here.

>
> >It is their problem, and doesn't bother me.
> 
> Is it really a problem, or a solution?
> 
It is their problem, not mine.  In my world, I can freely work with both
non-GPLed and commercial software with few encumberances that cause mutual
problems.  I also can work with GPLed code, but tend to avoid spending much
effort, unless it meets my immediate strategic goals.  (I do like hacking
on GCC and stuff, but know that any potential competitive advantage is lost,
and so don't bother working very hard or seriously on it.)

John

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