Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2018 22:02:05 -0400 From: Allan Jude <allanjude@freebsd.org> To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: drm / drm2 removal in 12 Message-ID: <424b6079-d0e7-0e05-b953-fc7cc0ed4478@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <CALM2mE=h-=0dPht02xQ86K%2BKypcVTB4ThUuB6LMQE%2BaUWcrtww@mail.gmail.com> References: <CAPrugNr9wN63ANjTYzyrHRegr9KTk_OSTLfrt%2BhktCnfKX=_mg@mail.gmail.com> <20180824215302.ivfna55jtrtc5trg@freebsd480.station> <CAPrugNqV6k2QTuiLerAKLB_hV1hkZNi4MLNqKU7MtVnMhMfPQw@mail.gmail.com> <CANCZdfp2rf=5e-qTV=-4yFrLPugn0UhtYovXdesJWbRWAjdGTg@mail.gmail.com> <CALM2mEmJVqfeERTL4AWw7cY3YfPUY6TFw==1hzBqsDJNDde_Uw@mail.gmail.com> <CAPrugNqsqQds6tBzeQcA%2B5tD4xh%2Bi1Fef2ta8Qjf5E6LTxPq4Q@mail.gmail.com> <CALM2mEmyjKD5vQexvHfeZK0Jud7HpGSn3RspBqFq49TzrfcwNg@mail.gmail.com> <86k1oepbdr.fsf@next.des.no> <CALM2mE=T_uEVPVi7J%2BjA-8c89T46%2B9X5wk1Xo5C8EfQmKap9yw@mail.gmail.com> <CAECmPwuX31et58uQ%2BryY0sugBTFsHTr-Rynm0jy67siz=J5SzQ@mail.gmail.com> <CALM2mE=tL5mTA4PPjYXmxdgeZbZBJDPUqXkAC5LEo3QcwYF3CQ@mail.gmail.com> <180f8f99-5fa1-1411-59e6-856e3ebc370c@cameron.net> <CALM2mE=h-=0dPht02xQ86K%2BKypcVTB4ThUuB6LMQE%2BaUWcrtww@mail.gmail.com>
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This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --MnI2ZbnwHQPuCAmaa23soljmymnhGZCRN Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="fg0EfPQPmy2vH3HsFq42dyvVsexyIEOTA"; protected-headers="v1" From: Allan Jude <allanjude@freebsd.org> To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Message-ID: <424b6079-d0e7-0e05-b953-fc7cc0ed4478@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: drm / drm2 removal in 12 References: <CAPrugNr9wN63ANjTYzyrHRegr9KTk_OSTLfrt+hktCnfKX=_mg@mail.gmail.com> <20180824215302.ivfna55jtrtc5trg@freebsd480.station> <CAPrugNqV6k2QTuiLerAKLB_hV1hkZNi4MLNqKU7MtVnMhMfPQw@mail.gmail.com> <CANCZdfp2rf=5e-qTV=-4yFrLPugn0UhtYovXdesJWbRWAjdGTg@mail.gmail.com> <CALM2mEmJVqfeERTL4AWw7cY3YfPUY6TFw==1hzBqsDJNDde_Uw@mail.gmail.com> <CAPrugNqsqQds6tBzeQcA+5tD4xh+i1Fef2ta8Qjf5E6LTxPq4Q@mail.gmail.com> <CALM2mEmyjKD5vQexvHfeZK0Jud7HpGSn3RspBqFq49TzrfcwNg@mail.gmail.com> <86k1oepbdr.fsf@next.des.no> <CALM2mE=T_uEVPVi7J+jA-8c89T46+9X5wk1Xo5C8EfQmKap9yw@mail.gmail.com> <CAECmPwuX31et58uQ+ryY0sugBTFsHTr-Rynm0jy67siz=J5SzQ@mail.gmail.com> <CALM2mE=tL5mTA4PPjYXmxdgeZbZBJDPUqXkAC5LEo3QcwYF3CQ@mail.gmail.com> <180f8f99-5fa1-1411-59e6-856e3ebc370c@cameron.net> <CALM2mE=h-=0dPht02xQ86K+KypcVTB4ThUuB6LMQE+aUWcrtww@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CALM2mE=h-=0dPht02xQ86K+KypcVTB4ThUuB6LMQE+aUWcrtww@mail.gmail.com> --fg0EfPQPmy2vH3HsFq42dyvVsexyIEOTA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2018-08-25 21:20, blubee blubeeme wrote: > On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 9:08 AM Paul McNary <pmcnary@cameron.net> wrote= : >=20 >> I think you can pay XinuOS to support FreeBSD in a LTS situation. >> It is just like linux where you have to pay Red Hat, Suse, etc. >> They break things even with point releases. Suse majorly >> screwed with video drivers back in the 9.x series. Totally >> broke major release. Their answer then was pay us or >> re-install bare metal and figure it out on your own. >> Other wise linux has always been, you get what you get for free. >> BSD is the same. If you are lucky some one like red hat, suse, XinuOS >> will be supporting and make their notes public, otherwise the >> OSS model doesn't include anything more than community support >> for what ever that is worth. >> I just upgraded a system from FreeBSD 9.x to 12.x, it took 2 weeks and= >> several incremental upgrades sometimes to multiple point releases >> with in a major release. There is nothing really for free. >> >> >> On 8/25/2018 7:47 PM, blubee blubeeme wrote: >>> On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 8:16 AM Johannes Lundberg <johalun0@gmail.com= > >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 00:25 blubee blubeeme <gurenchan@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 2:08 AM Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav <des@des.n= o> >> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> blubee blubeeme <gurenchan@gmail.com> writes: >>>>>>> True on both points my tone is just a reflection of attitudes of = the >>>>>>> individuals that I am currently addressing. >>>>>> Well, congratulations on alienating absolutely everybody you have >>>>>> interacted with on this topic. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Some people enjoy making contributions w/o waving a banner consta= ntly >>>>>>> wanting acknowledgement, a pat on the head and good job from >> everyone. >>>>>> The only person I see constantly craving attention and validation = from >>>>>> others here is you. >>>>>> >>>>>>> How far will core FreeBSD bend over backwards to accommodate thes= e >>>>>>> devs. >>>>>> The core team does not decide what goes into the tree or not. The= >>>>>> developers do. >>>>>> >>>>>>> This is the beauty of an open source project, we bring the best t= o >> the >>>>>>> table, [...] >>>>>> Who exactly is =E2=80=9Cwe=E2=80=9D here? You are not a member of= the project, you do >>>>>> not speak for the project, and after seeing how you treat our fell= ow >>>>>> developers, our friends, most of us want nothing to do with you. = If >>>>>> can't live with that, I'm sure you can figure out how to install >> Linux. >>>>>> >>>>>> DES >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no >>>>> >>>>> Some on here want to attack my personality because they think that = I am >>>>> abrasive, fine but that's not the issue. >>>>> >>>>> Some claim that they run the code and it works wonderful for them w= ith >> no >>>>> issues, again that's lovely keep on running the code. >>>>> >>>>> Nevertheless let me restate the point that you guys are all seemi= ng >> to >>>>> miss; If you can go out and build custom kernels with custom option= s >> and >>>>> out of mainline tree that's fine, keep doing that until you have >> something >>>>> that's production ready and as easy to install as the rest of FreeB= SD >>>>> system. >>>>> >>>>> The graphics stack on FreeBSD is pretty bad as it stands but all th= e >>>>> documentation currently out there is about using it as it stands no= w. >>>>> >>>>> Why do you need to rip out the current graphics drivers which will >> break >>>>> systems for the vast majority of silent users who will not complain= and >>>>> just leave? >>>>> >>>>> ---- A little background ---- >>>>> Do you know why Samsung, Motorola, Sony, LG, Nokia, etc... never up= date >>>>> their phones to the latest android version? >>>>> >>>>> It's because the Linux kernel is such a mess they know it's a waste= of >>>>> resources to try. You should not have to ask how or why I know this= >> but if >>>>> it's unclear I was in the field. >>>>> ----------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Now you guys who claim to only be hobbyist doing this in their free= >> time >>>>> expect to maintain this when those companies with all their resourc= es >>>>> cannot? >>>>> >>>>> Those 30,000 ports many of them bring bugs with them because of thi= s >>>>> Linuxkpi stuff. Just recently there was a user who said google eart= h >>>>> doesn't work the answer was it doesn't work and that's that. >>>>> >>>>> They get ported and then get dropped so while the ports tree is lar= ge, >> if >>>>> you actually try to use some of those programs they are broken, >>>>> maintenance >>>>> hell for the developers and confusion for the users. >>>>> >>>>> Johannes Lundberg I know that you are one of the main working on th= is >>>>> linuxkpi stuff but anyone else is free to answer as well. >>>>> >>>>> Let's have an open discussion why do you need to remove the current= >>>>> graphics stack to continue with your work? >>>> >>>> This has been discussed over and over on the mailing list and I don=E2= =80=99t >>>> think anyone wants to do it over again so please feel free to search= the >>>> archives. >>>> >>>> You=E2=80=99re misinformed. We are not removing anything for anyone.= We are >> moving >>>> it to ports. >>>> =E2=80=9Cpkg install drm-legacy-kmod=E2=80=9D will install those dri= vers for you that >> were >>>> earlier in base. I thought we have been clear about this but maybe w= e >>>> haven=E2=80=99t been clear enough. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >>>>> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >>>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to " >> freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org >>>>> " >>>>> >>>> Have you or anyone working on this drm-legacy-kmod stuff done any >> testings >>> of how this will affect current users? >>> >>> 1) Take a [test] system with the current graphics stack installed and= >>> working. >>> 2) Apply your patches to remove the drm from base to create a port >>> 3) update the working [test] system after applying your changes >>> >>> How does your changes affect a [test] system that is already up and >> running? >>> >>> Have any of you guys tried that? Do you have any documentation on how= >> it'll >>> affect users. >>> >>> You guys want to remove things from the current system but you come w= ith; >>> it works for us hobbyists. >>> Where do users go to get steps to do all of this stuff? >>> >>> You've repeatedly said what you want to do sure, but have you tested = it? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list >>> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.= org >> " >> >> > I'll just post this again to try and keep the focus on the issue at han= d. > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D > Have you or anyone working on this drm-legacy-kmod stuff done any testi= ngs > of how this will affect current users? >=20 > 1) Take a [test] system with the current graphics stack installed and > working. > 2) Apply your patches to remove the drm from base to create a port > 3) update the working [test] system after applying your changes >=20 > How does your changes affect a [test] system that is already up and run= ning? >=20 > Have any of you guys tried that? Do you have any documentation on how i= t'll > affect users. >=20 > You guys want to remove things from the current system but you come wit= h; > it works for us hobbyists. > Where do users go to get steps to do all of this stuff? >=20 > You've repeatedly said what you want to do sure, but have you tested it= ? > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" >=20 You have obviously not been paying attention. The patch will result in your upgraded system giving you an deprecation warning message, with instructions on installing the port. --=20 Allan Jude --fg0EfPQPmy2vH3HsFq42dyvVsexyIEOTA-- --MnI2ZbnwHQPuCAmaa23soljmymnhGZCRN Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJbggogAAoJEBmVNT4SmAt+yx8P/AsTX1kBj23wwIrOGXyUHv9W aeWxFLIWzh8wmL4gH5JoRbc0TFeCsS0pDbGipkm9H4oOqte532RnVnU7CN3c3axc p0fXKvGd9JolvESxtAFepfzKNfLeaCXf1SbPw13lJHNSncyS2RyCM0fGtUK86HRB ugK1TvCfyAL/m1yP8daBVkQqrZRGC3/ZJD5TE0QvGkzCdzM5SzoXvmzDsso2laaH SWfSxeeS+L01UQWmlgO6OZ0aGQ2zhAXi/jmKdI+KHHfz9V6Prnf4C6qxHDjvaksd p8TcJ91m2XY6P/iGFGolGmsBlhOO2694Cnz1lsGKgwKdg81t0t7HCsT8Pre8rV6c YWS5ry8GEj2nkAHn/JZSnxc3VRYCtrk5IzrRk3ara78nwTp+h2zRgTQevH8DiKvJ O0YyNDgNXVDFy7YISfvBI6DgzU+NR+rhwLRPIEE7eNGFR0Fnx2MsTfWxuBJGOARL I75kjmeHIHeHg56gotTXl+vmSp6AmUf/wAaZ3z8E+doryuqiU962NPbBmCrCbX8k vSATQ6Rl/U/5euVOh03cTr9sI6me0IT2VjQSiJQOp/1msIKJAivEC+Y2H7grYkvH PqA99vmIZ/7hsrSjxe1Gmt6Qh8Jjfei1WNdenloPpzyXMbSKaa3HglZfdOI01MXs 4uLQfTl/+ZYxomo+VcIK =NWhk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --MnI2ZbnwHQPuCAmaa23soljmymnhGZCRN--
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