Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 14:40:29 -0400 From: Marcel Moolenaar <marcel@xcllnt.net> To: Julian Elischer <julian@freebsd.org> Cc: David Chisnall <theraven@FreeBSD.org>, Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org>, Steve Kargl <sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu>, Alexander Kabaev <kabaev@gmail.com>, Marcel Moolenaar <marcel@FreeBSD.org>, src-committers@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, svn-src-head@freebsd.org Subject: Re: svn commit: r284198 - head/bin/ls Message-ID: <860017ED-D754-450C-865D-2D81A30C2212@xcllnt.net> In-Reply-To: <557C661F.8080104@freebsd.org> References: <201506100127.t5A1RdX6051959@svn.freebsd.org> <20150612204309.11dd3391@kan> <20150613024916.GA98218@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1434208622.1415.57.camel@freebsd.org> <C88CB169-12FE-4692-92AA-5C7D41BB61DF@FreeBSD.org> <557C661F.8080104@freebsd.org>
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[-- Attachment #1 --] > On Jun 13, 2015, at 1:19 PM, Julian Elischer <julian@freebsd.org> wrote: > > On 6/13/15 11:38 PM, David Chisnall wrote: >> On 13 Jun 2015, at 11:17, Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org> wrote: >>> If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that >>> could make 30 years of experience maintaining code for unix-like systems >>> completely worthless I would have been skeptical, but it seems we're >>> well on our way. >> There is a lot of heckling and unhelpful hyperbole in this thread. Reading the xo_emit format strings takes a little bit of getting used to, but the same is true of printf - it’s just that we’re already used to printf. The structured parts (xo_open_container, xo_close_container and friends) are clear and descriptive. The changes are fairly invasive, but the benefits are also very large for anyone who is wanting to automate administration of FreeBSD systems. >> >> If you have suggestions for how the libxo APIs could be improved, then please let us know - Phil is very reception to suggestions but objections along the lines of ‘it’s not what I’m used to and changes sometimes break things so we should never have changes’ are not helpful. >> >> David >> > I made a suggestion for an alternate path in the previous thread. > > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2015-March/054855.html > > but I have a job and kids so I can't object if I'm not listened to.. > (no time to actually follow my own advice and produce working code.) Not wanting to change all programs and instead write grammars for all programs seems like a worse solution. The scope is the same (same number of programs), but since the grammars and programs are two distinct entities, it’s actually fairly hard to make sure both are changed at the same time when so needed. It’s also not at all a given that screen scrubbing is always easy enough to do that it isn’t causing some sort of problems in specific situations. If one wants to output JSON, XML and HTML you find that screen scrubbing doesn’t even give you all the information you need. It’s very natural to come to the conclusion that it’s easier to get the data from the source and skip the entire non-lossless translation phase. -- Marcel Moolenaar marcel@xcllnt.net [-- Attachment #2 --] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJVfHkdAAoJEIda8t8f0tjjhA4QAKZEczGxM2qewibBzMOGmQaU IuNQIMz7hUXhsoJ0AQ+Zw07Ad/Vg9EsbX+pYVqUPJrFIfDqEv2hC/u3qXEkm5QK5 wbN294IBaM31GZZfxXYhN1Ibh2TtUqHbRu0ODexupx6rdD1gEk8qQ8Vf/dhCWwHA yWauNBpxjoMl/1phgPPztfCjPNFqns9ZeQW0yZDXBHYRGQj1Dr7N5bUctiEAmb1a 3NOi/EV4gEkfXAw9tIBUu2IdZrhWKqwOib16fSrPE+qd+f8n5VzpoIr763EWLFkN RSakmjmWvHJQrdTKI5qOOiG1Eov8TQjgoS0fiq1ttbJcN08OZFCtDn4BItEwmKAk fKd72XJMmal4NqSH7kA2LzWYXjHqESJpwtO3l/nQheyPiGBCve32nkouZ+jF7Hg0 CHqL3w9VcrTt15w6vY/wyIurlQM1OOgJhrc6Y3pJgqt0Vbh8h4qsCQMN3rY9UDzD tae2Rc0GXaTE5ZmZvYPdzOPUSZQwE5TijiqRNB2GqyZz6jfW+0IHckapkiZbhjcZ v1r15xc2hLGsrhgUxbIqgVt/zwseJIdk/yyLMQsG9Ij2Xa4Pey8YjH0wpo2x2rmL KVulBcCG03jW8oZOWb0Lq1wRko4+v8WkUR9rp8lgxavLxJTRnzY7cr3oAAS51t21 milhmFvXUYq+VprVZwnY =+X5U -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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