Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2023 16:17:34 -0500 From: Jake Freeland <jake@technologyfriends.net> To: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> Cc: Alexey Dokuchaev <danfe@freebsd.org>, Warner Losh <imp@freebsd.org>, src-committers@freebsd.org, dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org, dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org Subject: Re: git: af93fea71038 - main - timerfd: Move implementation from linux compat to sys/kern Message-ID: <CAOgZAGYykL1j1%2BUhcb68RYj1y93yN8gd90R9evjZrRRX_gkUyA@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CAOgZAGa7%2BOGmPsAu=OyaMvva2Bw9CLPJLPucvnFMyzXXDr3iag@mail.gmail.com> References: <202308242029.37OKTmVs091755@gitrepo.freebsd.org> <ZOyQQgOAap9L7OT1@FreeBSD.org> <CANCZdfqqahUmXxh6sGiPgiGUJCAqiyXjV-x8XT3Nku7007L7fw@mail.gmail.com> <CAOgZAGa7%2BOGmPsAu=OyaMvva2Bw9CLPJLPucvnFMyzXXDr3iag@mail.gmail.com>
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--000000000000c2976806040239ae Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 4:12=E2=80=AFPM Jake Freeland <jake@technologyfrien= ds.net> wrote: > On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 11:19=E2=80=AFAM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wro= te: > >> Added cc for Jake >> >> On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 6:17=E2=80=AFAM Alexey Dokuchaev <danfe@freebsd.= org> >> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 08:29:48PM +0000, Warner Losh wrote: >>> > commit af93fea710385b2b11f0cabd377e7ed6f3d97c34 >>> > >>> > timerfd: Move implementation from linux compat to sys/kern >>> > >>> > Move the timerfd impelemntation from linux compat code to sys/kern. >>> >>> Could you quickly summarize why we need these linuxish bits in FreeBSD? >>> We've lived for years without it. Had expected to find the rationale >>> in DR but alas. :( Thanks, >>> >> > The amount of software designed exclusively for Linux grows every day. > Support for FreeBSD is almost always done on behalf of FreeBSD > contributors, not the program developers. > > I do not want to play the cat-and-mouse game of constantly updating shims > so we can support Linux software. I would rather take the sensible* parts > of Linux and integrate them into core FreeBSD. > > My goal is not to turn FreeBSD into Linux, but rather to stay relevant in > an age where most younger developers don't even know what BSD is. We shou= ld > spend more resources on Linux program support, so younger audiences can u= se > their Discord web apps natively on FreeBSD. > Sorry, this should say "Discord desktop apps", not "web apps". Jake Freeland > > Absorbing "linuxish" bits is controversial and I think that is a tragedy. > In my eyes, having "linuxish" features is one of the best ways to ease th= e > jump between Linux and FreeBSD, and minimize the maintenance needed for > FreeBSD support. > > * > https://ariadne.space/2021/06/06/actually-bsd-kqueue-is-a-mountain-of-tec= hnical-debt/ > > Jake Freeland > > >> I'll let Jake answer this and >> >> > glibc misc/tst-timerfd test fails now under Linux emulation >> >> I think his new review https://reviews.freebsd.org/D41600 addresses this >> issue maybe >> >> Warner >> > --000000000000c2976806040239ae Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 4:12=E2=80=AFPM J= ake Freeland <<a href=3D"mailto:jake@technologyfriends.net">jake@technol= ogyfriends.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquo= te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px = solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">= On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 11:19=E2=80=AFAM Warner Losh <<a href=3D"mailto:= imp@bsdimp.com" target=3D"_blank">imp@bsdimp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><d= iv class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:= 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">= <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Added cc for Jake</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"= ><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 6:17=E2=80= =AFAM Alexey Dokuchaev <<a href=3D"mailto:danfe@freebsd.org" target=3D"_= blank">danfe@freebsd.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail= _quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204= ,204);padding-left:1ex">On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 08:29:48PM +0000, Warner Lo= sh wrote:<br> > commit af93fea710385b2b11f0cabd377e7ed6f3d97c34<br> > <br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0timerfd: Move implementation from linux compat to sys/kern= <br> > <br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0Move the timerfd impelemntation from linux compat code to = sys/kern.<br> <br> Could you quickly summarize why we need these linuxish bits in FreeBSD?<br> We've lived for years without it.=C2=A0 Had expected to find the ration= ale<br> in DR but alas. :(=C2=A0 Thanks,<br></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><= div><br></div><div><div>The amount of software designed exclusively=C2=A0fo= r Linux grows every day. Support for FreeBSD is almost always done on behal= f of FreeBSD contributors, not the program developers.</div><div><br></div>= <div>I do not want to play the cat-and-mouse game of constantly updating sh= ims so we can support Linux software. I would rather take the sensible* par= ts of Linux and integrate them into core FreeBSD.</div><div><br></div><div>= My goal is not to turn FreeBSD into Linux, but rather to stay relevant in a= n age where most younger developers don't even know what BSD is. We sho= uld spend more resources on Linux program support, so younger audiences can= use their Discord web apps natively on FreeBSD.</div></div></div></div></b= lockquote><div><br></div><div>Sorry, this should say "Discord desktop = apps", not "web apps".</div><div><br></div><div>Jake Freelan= d</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0= px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><= div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div><br></div><div>Absorbi= ng "linuxish" bits is controversial and I think that is a tragedy= . In my eyes, having "linuxish" features is one of the best ways = to ease the jump between Linux and FreeBSD, and minimize the maintenance ne= eded for FreeBSD support.</div><div><br></div><div>*=C2=A0<a href=3D"https:= //ariadne.space/2021/06/06/actually-bsd-kqueue-is-a-mountain-of-technical-d= ebt/" target=3D"_blank">https://ariadne.space/2021/06/06/actually-bsd-kqueu= e-is-a-mountain-of-technical-debt/</a></div></div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>Jak= e Freeland</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m= argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left= :1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmai= l_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,20= 4,204);padding-left:1ex"></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I'll let Jake= answer this and</div><div><br></div><div>> glibc misc/tst-timerfd test = fails now under Linux emulation<div></div><br></div><div>I think his new re= view=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://reviews.freebsd.org/D41600" target=3D"_blank">= https://reviews.freebsd.org/D41600</a>; addresses this issue maybe</div><div= ><br></div><div>Warner</div></div></div> </blockquote></div></div> </blockquote></div></div> --000000000000c2976806040239ae--
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