Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 19:51:21 +0200 From: Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@critter.freebsd.dk> To: jessemonroy@email.com Cc: jkh@osd.bsdi.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [jkh@osd.bsdi.com: ANNOUNCE: Status update on ftp.freebsd.org A KA ftp.freesoftware.com] Message-ID: <31182.988912281@critter> In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 03 May 2001 10:32:32 PDT." <200105031733.KAA11858@dnull.com>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
Jordan, As far as I can see the ECHELON is still doing a good job of filtering his messages out, I have seen no traces of this thread anywhere else than on the encrypted monitor VPN. But I guess he is on to our plan, so we really have no choice but to kill him. Is it your turn or my turn to call the squad ? Ohh, btw: great cover story you got going there, I wonder if anybody else will catch the subtle irony of the first space tourist having the same name as a former eastern block dictator, TSGM were all howling from laughter when they heard it, you certainly scored some brownie points with that. And how's your new helicopter ? Black is always beautiful as they say :-) Poul-Henning In message <200105031733.KAA11858@dnull.com>, jessem@livecam.com writes: >On 3 May, Jordan Hubbard wrote: >> Well, given that it's you I'm speaking with, I think we can just >> settle for the Aliens explanation and leave it at that. In the real >> world, shit happens and people do their best to deal with it, often >> with inadequate information and a lack of alternative resources. >> >> I suppose I could also ascribe your own failure to ever come up with a >> QIC tape driver or a floppy driver (despite months of "newsletters" >> and apparent effort) as a coverup or major incompetence in action, but >> that would be another case of reading too much into a sitution where >> simple human frailty was a more than adequate explanation. >> >> If you wish to turn SVBUG into your own personal pulpit for conspiracy >> theories and other wild-ass politicking then you're also free to do >> so, but SVBUG should not then be surprised if the rest of us avoid it >> like the plague. I've already made our position plain and this is the >> last communication we need to have on the matter since I can easily >> see that we're going squarely down the path of serious >> non-productivity with this whole exchange. I also don't see where the >> -hackers mailing list needs to be involved since this has NOTHING to >> do with FreeBSD hacking. Have a nice day. >> >Mr. Hubbard, > It's more than apparent I've found the right point at which to >discuss this issue. If flame bait had to be labeled, in this case >it would be 'aliens'. We both have bitten into that apple now. > > I hoped you would answer the question. However, given the past >nature of your responses, my guess that you would take the 'aliens' >route proved correct (at least to me). Conspiracy, that's your label. >It has implications, I don't see any that apply; perhaps you do. > > As for the nature of SVBUG, perhaps you might consider >that my 'wild-ass politicking' might be the response of the >club as a whole. To which, a bunch of OS-X newbies might >be the least of your issues for years to come. > > Lastly, as an SVBUG club member remarked last might, "perhaps >FreeBSD will now become familiar with how the Jolitz felt, when >they were accused of coverups." > > Best Regards, > Jessem. > > > > >> - Jordan >> >> From: jessem@livecam.com >> Subject: Re: [jkh@osd.bsdi.com: ANNOUNCE: Status update on ftp.freebsd.org A KA ftp.freesoftware.com] >> Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 03:14:44 -0700 (PDT) >> >>> Jordan, >>> I don't buy this story for a moment. You should expect >>> SVBUG not to either. This can only be classified as: >>> >>> A) A poor excuse for a coverup (for some unknown reason) >>> B) Major incompetence (in which someone should resign) >>> C) Aliens have landed >>> >>> If as you say, it has been known since the 20th of >>> April, 2001, then the world (and FreeBSD) has plenty >>> of channels for communications. Windriver has a website, >>> it is un-affected by FreeBSD traffic. BSDi has a website, >>> it is un-affected by FreeBSD traffic. Daemonnews has >>> a website.... Do I need continue? >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> Jessem. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > To: announce@FreeBSD.ORG >>> > Subject: ANNOUNCE: Status update on ftp.freebsd.org AKA ftp.freesoftware.com >>> > X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) >>> > Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 20:58:09 -0700 >>> > From: Jordan Hubbard <jkh@osd.bsdi.com> >>> > >>> > Hi folks, >>> > >>> > This is just a short note to discuss the current state of affairs with >>> > our master FTP site, explain what we're doing about it and combat some >>> > of the FUD floating around which has everyone from space aliens to >>> > Wind River Systems (who supply the space aliens with navigational >>> > software, of course) intentionally killing the site off. >>> > >>> > On April 20th, 2001, the day that FreeBSD 4.3 was due to be released, >>> > we lost access to our main FTP site, ftp.freesoftware.com, without any >>> > advance warning. Further investigation revealed that the problem was >>> > due to an unforeseen network outage which caused the hosting ISP to >>> > have to block access to the site. With one of their major links down, >>> > it was overloading the ISPs backup links and denying bandwidth to >>> > their other customers. >>> > >>> > It was also not clear to us, then or now, just how long the outage >>> > would last and whether this was to be a short-term or a long-term >>> > problem. With the release date for 4.3 already well publicized in >>> > advance and many people asking me for it, I decided to use one of our >>> > backup sites, the usw[1-6].freebsd.org cluster, and at least get the >>> > current releases bits up somewhere on an interim basis. >>> > >>> > Unfortunately, I really underestimated both the extent of the demand >>> > and the degree to which our big, fat Gigabit pipe at ftp.freesoftware.com >>> > has made distributing the bits to our mirrors look comparatively easy. >>> > Even with the login limits set *significantly* greater in favor of the >>> > registered mirror sites, and with multiple machines pulling the load, >>> > it quickly overwhelmed the new hosting infrastructure and resulted in >>> > significant bandwidth limiting on FTP traffic being instituted by the >>> > ISP. Even delaying the official announcement by 24 hours had no >>> > measurable effect on the overload since word of mouth and anticipation >>> > had already built demand beyond the saturation point. >>> > >>> > In short, what many of us have suspected for years turned out to be >>> > proven rather abruptly true: The FreeBSD.org services infrastructure >>> > has become overly reliant on resources which constitute single points >>> > of failure and lacks both sufficient tiering and redundancy in the >>> > face of such failure. We lost a key FTP resource and our entire >>> > distribution service essentially collapsed. The same may be true for >>> > CVSup, mail and WWW services and that's something we definitely need >>> > to look at. >>> > >>> > For now, the most critical item is to finish implementing the >>> > discussed-but-not-implemented ftp-master site scheme. A machine to >>> > serve as the project's "master FTP host" has been procured will >>> > shortly be available for FTP access. ONLY mirror sites will be >>> > allowed to connect to it, and it will always be pre-loaded with >>> > release bits, CERT advisories and anything else which requires the >>> > mirrors to have a head-start in advance of any public announcement. >>> > Announcements will only be made after a hand-inspection of the mirror >>> > sites reveals that a significant degree of propagation has taken place >>> > from the master site and not beforehand. >>> > >>> > What people currently regard as "ftp.freebsd.org" will become another >>> > tier of sites, probably served in round-robin DNS fashion, which have >>> > all agreed to meet the minimum requirements for being "full and >>> > complete mirrors" of the bits offered from ftp-master.freebsd.org. >>> > Existing mirror sites which wish to maintain only a subset of the >>> > master bits will become clients of these second-tier sites and subject >>> > to whatever distribution policies they institute. It would be my >>> > expectation that certain 2nd-tier sites will also have mirror access >>> > lists which favor the 3rd-tier sites over end-users, but that's a >>> > detail to be worked out over time. >>> > >>> > It's also not clear what, if anything, needs to be done to make sites >>> > like www.freebsd.org and hub.freebsd.org more reliable in the face of >>> > failure, but people can certainly expect that a good deal of thought >>> > will be going into answering those questions over the next few weeks. >>> > >>> > It certainly would have been nice to have had all of this been fixed >>> > before the release of 4.3, of course, and it's somewhat ironic that >>> > discussions about these very problems were occurring right around the >>> > same time, but it sometimes requires a truly painful experience to >>> > actually force an organization (or an individual for that matter) to >>> > both recognize and act on its shortcomings. >>> > >>> > The failure of the FTP site, the timing of FreeBSD 4.3 RELEASE and >>> > Wind River's acquisition of BSDi's BSD assets were simply unfortunate >>> > coincidences which had no causal link and I'd also be happy if people >>> > would stop inferring as much. Wind River has, in fact, indicated some >>> > interest in keeping the ftp.freesoftware.com site alive and we simply >>> > need to figure out the best way of doing so. As one might expect, a >>> > Gigabit connection and collocation facilities for a full 19" rack's >>> > worth of equipment doesn't come cheap! >>> > >>> > I will be releasing more information as the situation develops, >>> > both here and to the hubs@freebsd.org mailing list. Thanks, >>> > >>> > - Jordan >>> > >>> > This is the moderated mailing list freebsd-announce. >>> > The list contains announcements of new FreeBSD capabilities, >>> > important events and project milestones. >>> > See also the FreeBSD Web pages at http://www.freebsd.org >>> > >>> > >>> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >>> > with "unsubscribe freebsd-announce" in the body of the message >>> > >>> > >>> > ----- End forwarded message ----- >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >>> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message >> >> > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?31182.988912281>