Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 11:47:45 -0600 From: Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org> To: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> Cc: FreeBSD Net <freebsd-net@freebsd.org>, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>, "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" <freebsd-arch@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Message-ID: <1538675265.14264.12.camel@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <CANCZdfqHG=t2NPPrP3LtpCnu%2B_pVXFRCapkLVJWCfaFnXvXj2w@mail.gmail.com> References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <55a44e73-60ab-e386-360a-b0a0198a0e71@zyxst.net> <8878cac1-d5d2-4224-6aa5-85516db23c14@sorbs.net> <CANCZdfrMbD1U0u-3WQJYnoyyZitJKQo5CnBTeZVbZ2ONjt20pQ@mail.gmail.com> <1538673997.14264.9.camel@freebsd.org> <CANCZdfqHG=t2NPPrP3LtpCnu%2B_pVXFRCapkLVJWCfaFnXvXj2w@mail.gmail.com>
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On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 11:38 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:26 AM Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org> wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 10:21 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:15 AM Michelle Sullivan > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tech-lists wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm astonished you're considering removing rl given how common it is. > > > > > > > > > I'll second that comment - though no disrespect to Brooks. Brooks as > > > > far as I can see is just the messenger. > > > > > > > Absent good data, one has to make one's best guesses. I guessed wrong > > here > > > > > > in my comments to Brooks about which ones were must keeps. I knew it was > > > popular back in the day (~2000), but had thought it's popularity had > > waned > > > > > > much more than it apparently has. I last deployed systems with rl in them > > > around 2007, and at the time it was trailing edge gear (the SBCs we used > > at > > > > > > Timing Solutions tended to use popular, but ~5-year-old technology > > because > > > > > > that market segment wanted longevity of spare availability...). > > > > > > Warner > > 11 years later, we (Timing Solutions, now a division of Microchip) are > > still using SBCs with rl(4) hardware and still shipping software > > updates with that driver built into the kernel. We build systems with a > > lifespan in the field of 20 years or more, and the stability and > > compatibility across OS upgrades over that kind of span is a BIG reason > > to use freebsd rather than linux for such things. > > > OK. I'd have thought those SBCs would have gone out of production years > ago.... It's a good datapoint to know that there's multiple users of > FreeBSD using these parts in products that are still shipping. That's a > clear and compelling benefit to the project that offsets the efforts that > it's taken them to keep things current with rl. > > In this case, though, rl is off the list, so that hardware should still be > good. The only other SBC I was aware of at Timing Solutions was one that > had an 'ed' chip on it (an ISA realtek part IIRC) that was used in around > 2001, but in a 'one off' custom setup that I don't think will ever be > upgraded.... But I have to ask since I know how things worked during my > time there and systems that 'would never be upgraded' often times were > later... > > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, smc, > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this thread, and > which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD system of any age today. > > Warner I checked all our various kernel configs, and the only one on the list we still use appears to be rl. One driver I was surprised to see was not on the list was vte. So I'll just preemptively mention that we do use that one too. -- Ian
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