Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2022 23:05:14 +0300 From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk <m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com> To: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> Cc: Sean Bruno <sbruno@freebsd.org>, freebsd-current <freebsd-current@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: USB Disk Stalls on -current Message-ID: <CAOgwaMs0sKDU95FD=iXHCDmUABzJL%2BrPvPrgcx_Oc%2B-c9Z=HOQ@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CANCZdfpWwP5oSh8ktgj9hBnhpn%2BRR1HaEAY7sLQSTtQOw-AHGA@mail.gmail.com> References: <7e8459e4-d708-7750-402c-cda2adf6199f@freebsd.org> <CANCZdfqG-%2B9dfFz-%2BeezZaqbPQN5-mQpw%2B214CkiKC%2B_kmW2ig@mail.gmail.com> <60ebd011-c2b8-3524-1476-123f11128ffe@freebsd.org> <CANCZdfpWwP5oSh8ktgj9hBnhpn%2BRR1HaEAY7sLQSTtQOw-AHGA@mail.gmail.com>
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[-- Attachment #1 --] On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 10:11 PM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote: > > > On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 12:02 PM Sean Bruno <sbruno@freebsd.org> wrote: > >> >> >> > >> > >> > So there's some tools you can use. For usb, there's usbdump that can >> > get you the USB transactions. I've not used it enough to give more >> details >> > here. This will let you know what's going on, and when, on the USB >> endpoint. >> > >> > You can also enable the CAM_IOSCHED stuff. This will allow you to get >> > latency >> > measurements for 'requests in the sim' which basically will tell you >> > what your >> > latency spread is for the drives. This will tell you if things are >> > getting caught >> > up in the USB layer, or after CAM's da driver completes the I/O request >> > (granted, that's almost certainly not happening, but it will help you >> > figure out >> > what's going on and put numbers to the oddities you are seeing). >> > >> > Also, make sure you have good cables. I've had lots of hicups over the >> > years from dodgy USB cables. Also make sure you have good, high quality >> > enclosures. Many from the USB2 time-period are sketchy at best and I >> > went through several at one point trying to find a good one. I'd be >> > tempted to >> > get USB 3 enclosures. I've had better luck with USB3 gear than USB2 gear >> > here, but you need a USB-3 controller to get USB-3 speeds which might >> not >> > be compatible with the NUC's built-in stuff (though my NUC has one USB3 >> > port, there's lots of different models). >> > >> > Usually, though, I see weirdness associated with dmesg messages from >> > usb, cam, etc when the hardware is on the sketch end. >> > >> > Warner >> >> I'm assuming that I have a fairly dodgy USB device, as the pauses seem >> to correspond to this from CAM being emitted: >> >> Feb 6 11:56:43 alice kernel: (da0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): READ(10). CDB: 28 >> 00 36 69 02 6e 00 00 80 00 >> Feb 6 11:56:43 alice kernel: (da0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB >> request completed with an error >> Feb 6 11:56:43 alice kernel: (da0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command, >> 2 more tries remain >> >> >> Things resume after this is emitted, but there is a substantial >> (multiple minutes) pause here. I would assume that timeouts would fire >> much quicker. >> > > The default timeout is 60s. > > You can reduce that substantially by setting kern.cam.da.default_timeout > to a smaller level. Disk operations completed within 5s these days, > except spin ups. Heck, nearly all complete within 500ms. You > might try setting this value to maybe 3 or 5 or 10 to see if that helps the > hiccups without introducing extra retries when the load is heavy. The > smaller values give a faster recovery, but too small a number may result > in timeouts and errors under load. I think you need to set this as a > tuneable. > > Warner > Are your external disks "GREEN" , i.e. , "energy saver" kind . If the external disks are energy saver kind , they will start to sleep when they are not used for a while , and waking them up will take time which causes significant distress , because to use them requires waiting every such wake up . At that point another important trouble is slowness of USB external disks with respect to internal ( non-energy saver ) SATA disks . When response time is important , it is necessary to avoid such "GREEN" disks . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk [-- Attachment #2 --] <div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 10:11 PM Warner Losh <<a href="mailto:imp@bsdimp.com">imp@bsdimp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 12:02 PM Sean Bruno <<a href="mailto:sbruno@freebsd.org" target="_blank">sbruno@freebsd.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br> <br> > <br> > <br> > So there's some tools you can use. For usb, there's usbdump that can<br> > get you the USB transactions. I've not used it enough to give more details<br> > here. This will let you know what's going on, and when, on the USB endpoint.<br> > <br> > You can also enable the CAM_IOSCHED stuff. This will allow you to get <br> > latency<br> > measurements for 'requests in the sim' which basically will tell you <br> > what your<br> > latency spread is for the drives. This will tell you if things are <br> > getting caught<br> > up in the USB layer, or after CAM's da driver completes the I/O request<br> > (granted, that's almost certainly not happening, but it will help you <br> > figure out<br> > what's going on and put numbers to the oddities you are seeing).<br> > <br> > Also, make sure you have good cables. I've had lots of hicups over the<br> > years from dodgy USB cables. Also make sure you have good, high quality<br> > enclosures. Many from the USB2 time-period are sketchy at best and I<br> > went through several at one point trying to find a good one. I'd be <br> > tempted to<br> > get USB 3 enclosures. I've had better luck with USB3 gear than USB2 gear<br> > here, but you need a USB-3 controller to get USB-3 speeds which might not<br> > be compatible with the NUC's built-in stuff (though my NUC has one USB3<br> > port, there's lots of different models).<br> > <br> > Usually, though, I see weirdness associated with dmesg messages from<br> > usb, cam, etc when the hardware is on the sketch end.<br> > <br> > Warner<br> <br> I'm assuming that I have a fairly dodgy USB device, as the pauses seem <br> to correspond to this from CAM being emitted:<br> <br> Feb 6 11:56:43 alice kernel: (da0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): READ(10). CDB: 28 <br> 00 36 69 02 6e 00 00 80 00<br> Feb 6 11:56:43 alice kernel: (da0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): CAM status: CCB <br> request completed with an error<br> Feb 6 11:56:43 alice kernel: (da0:umass-sim1:1:0:0): Retrying command, <br> 2 more tries remain<br> <br> <br> Things resume after this is emitted, but there is a substantial <br> (multiple minutes) pause here. I would assume that timeouts would fire <br> much quicker.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The default timeout is 60s.</div><div><br></div><div>You can reduce that substantially by setting kern.cam.da.default_timeout</div><div>to a smaller level. Disk operations completed within 5s these days,</div><div>except spin ups. Heck, nearly all complete within 500ms. You</div><div>might try setting this value to maybe 3 or 5 or 10 to see if that helps the</div><div>hiccups without introducing extra retries when the load is heavy. The</div><div>smaller values give a faster recovery, but too small a number may result</div><div>in timeouts and errors under load. I think you need to set this as a tuneable.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Warner<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">Are your external disks "GREEN" , i.e. , "energy saver" kind .</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">If the external disks are energy saver kind , they will start to sleep when they are not</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">used for a while , and waking them up will take time which causes significant distress ,</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">because to use them requires waiting every such wake up .</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">At that point another important trouble is slowness of USB external disks <br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">with respect to internal ( non-energy saver ) SATA disks .<br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">When response time is important , it is necessary to avoid such "GREEN" disks .</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default"></div><br><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default">Mehmet Erol Sanliturk<br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default"></div><br></div><div> </div></div></div>help
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