Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 15:48:39 -0400 From: Charles Sprickman <spork@bway.net> To: "Patrick M. Hausen" <hausen@punkt.de> Cc: Ed Maste <emaste@freebsd.org>, freebsd-stable stable <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? Message-ID: <81955104-AFA3-451D-8AE7-630C483E8DF3@bway.net> In-Reply-To: <6051E091-200B-4A7F-9A53-86652425BBB6@punkt.de> References: <CAPyFy2AbP2X339zbemZ9Y8edjNKdyygnR9mH48Q78nxwDtOBAg@mail.gmail.com> <6051E091-200B-4A7F-9A53-86652425BBB6@punkt.de>
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--Apple-Mail=_386B22DF-C54B-4039-ACC1-46240E31BD2E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Apr 5, 2021, at 3:01 PM, Patrick M. Hausen <hausen@punkt.de> wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > I absolutely freaked out when Apple removed the telnet and ftp clients > from Mac OS and I needed to reinstall them via MacPorts. Yep, and what I think many miss IRT to the stock ftpd is that it=E2=80=99s= dumb simple and =E2=80=9Cjust works=E2=80=9D. For web hosting stuff I generally use something like Proftpd or vsftpd, = and, IMHO, that=E2=80=99s when you should have to expend brain power to = choose something from ports - when your use-case (supporting hosting = customers, virtual users, etc.) requires a non-trivial ftp = implementation. Also I can count on my left hand the number of web hosting customers = I=E2=80=99ve run into that actually use scp for sftp or even know what = that is. They=E2=80=99re using the same ftp client they=E2=80=99ve = always used (ws-ftp quite often) and the last thing they want to do is = learn something new. > People who manage any larger collection of networking gear *depend* > on these outdated but simple services. Client and server side alike. I frequently work with people who have limited budgets, and I don=E2=80=99= t think I=E2=80=99m alone in that. Ebay is chock full of high-volume = sellers turning over old networking gear that is amazingly good stuff = that=E2=80=99s just outdated. I can grab a 48 port GigE switch with = 10gb/s uplink ports for under $200. The market is gigantic, and putting = old stuff to use on an internal network with proper safeguards is not = totally crazy. Customers can have multiple fully-loaded spares on-site = for less than what a year of SmartNet coverage would cost. My server platform of choice when I want a =E2=80=9Csupport server=E2=80=9D= for this old stuff has always been FreeBSD. Stock tftpd and ftpd are = wonderful, and anyone professing that those two tiny daemons are = =E2=80=9Cbloat=E2=80=9D just hasn=E2=80=99t used Linux. > TFTP is not going away, neither is FTP. I'm dead serious. Remote media > via Supermicro IPMI in 2021? SMB1. Firmware updates for my UPS? FTP. > Scanner/printer/fax all-in-one thingy? Uploads received fax = transmissions > via FTP. PBX? Uploads usage reports via FTP. This stuff is here to = stay. > In local networks, of course. Preach! And plenty of VoIP gear too! There are absolutely real world uses for these simple daemons, and I = trust some stock FreeBSD daemon like this more than something I might = fetch from ports - both in terms of knowing it=E2=80=99s had some kind = of auditing/maintenance by qualified people and that it=E2=80=99s going = to have an accurate manpage, sane defaults, and remain relatively = simple/minimal. I think as everyone has moved to the cloud and devops and all that they = forget about sysadmins standing up servers as simple utility boxes that = support a bunch of other gear. > But still even on "the Internet", FTP is the most used method for = customers > of static website hosting. You cannot teach these people what an SSH = key is. > Just my experience, but backed by a load of customer interactions over = more > than 20 years =E2=80=A6 I think some people mean well, and they imagine that if we just tell = people to move to some monstrosity like Filezilla the problem is solved, = but realistically it=E2=80=99s just a good way to lose paying customers. Charles >=20 > Kind regards, > Patrick > -- > punkt.de GmbH > Patrick M. Hausen > .infrastructure >=20 > Kaiserallee 13a > 76133 Karlsruhe >=20 > Tel. +49 721 9109500 >=20 > https://infrastructure.punkt.de > info@punkt.de >=20 > AG Mannheim 108285 > Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: J=C3=BCrgen Egeling, Daniel Lienert, Fabian = Stein >=20 --Apple-Mail=_386B22DF-C54B-4039-ACC1-46240E31BD2E Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEECbwhUg0jlYPK5QaKiZUhnP6GpPYFAmBraZYACgkQiZUhnP6G pPY08ggAlEzi1QHqo4wVZAXNGyV4BEI1kWM7Cz6U1Z4aOYF/sXsOEGcfJSvZGer2 fIDdL8myY+h1IGXPOu74bQoRbCrYN/sm1q22WC74fFUnkrx2qGgy4BOrgDaeBIqD K+n9JJFmEQipCPDY0ZXd11ax/46L9aF/RaYxgbxIkDOJXMNz7Y+xufmiFrIHSOIl TBuJlqEvma5p7iWNvgqTa2Z0Jytzqem5rX08lXgxG6etEM72+xJ9IMRBDSkO4xur 7WAQg9iB4ka8fSW9IYORiU4FFKh7wgKUnPsvK1keNObjW+9AxIEEPfOPwOhCkLkG oGtivWhKqvYJdLJ4NPujFyQFysVnmg== =RwjV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_386B22DF-C54B-4039-ACC1-46240E31BD2E--
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