Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2025 17:20:26 +0100 From: David Chisnall <theraven@FreeBSD.org> To: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> Cc: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" <bz@freebsd.org>, wireless@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Current <current@freebsd.org>, FreeBSD Stable ML <stable@freebsd.org>, desktop@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP: wireless KPI and KBI and FreeBSD 15 Message-ID: <81E0167A-7330-4C67-BEAA-074A7CA26E63@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <CANCZdfrd1Z_Y35-C=L61iW01FX=iXR-noJWA-GheDPGv%2Bs6nGA@mail.gmail.com> References: <114q5890-nrs9-55r5-44n9-86506985490s@SerrOFQ.bet> <6803DF9A-5660-4F05-82CC-B4085584EF30@freebsd.org> <CANCZdfrd1Z_Y35-C=L61iW01FX=iXR-noJWA-GheDPGv%2Bs6nGA@mail.gmail.com>
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[-- Attachment #1 --] On 5 Jun 2025, at 15:59, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote: > > Never going to happen. That's not possible today for any module at all. We can't even do minor releases with anything complicated (though some simpler drivers can work with sufficient effort). When did this stop being a guarantee that we at least tried to provide? We used to go through structures and add padding in places we thought might need changes before a major release, make things that modules might use have explicit initialisation functions that would initialise newly added fields, and so on. I thought KBI stability was something we promised during a major release but it seems that now there’s an expectation that you recompile all of your kernel modules every point release. The release engineering docs still talk about KBI freezes for stable branches: https://download.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/freebsd-releng/freebsd-releng_en.pdf David [-- Attachment #2 --] <html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">On 5 Jun 2025, at 15:59, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:<br><div><blockquote type="cite"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">Never going to happen. That's not possible today for any module at all. We can't even do minor releases with anything complicated (though some simpler drivers can work with sufficient effort).</div></div></blockquote><br></div><div>When did this stop being a guarantee that we at least tried to provide? We used to go through structures and add padding in places we thought might need changes before a major release, make things that modules might use have explicit initialisation functions that would initialise newly added fields, and so on.</div><div><br></div><div>I thought KBI stability was something we promised during a major release but it seems that now there’s an expectation that you recompile all of your kernel modules every point release. The release engineering docs still talk about KBI freezes for stable branches:</div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://download.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/freebsd-releng/freebsd-releng_en.pdf">https://download.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/freebsd-releng/freebsd-releng_en.pdf</a></div><div><br></div><div>David</div><div><br></div></body></html>home | help
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