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Date:      Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:37:28 -0500
From:      "Kevin K" <kkutzko@teksavvy.com>
To:        "'Ivan Voras'" <ivoras@freebsd.org>, <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
Subject:   RE: Dual Core Xeon /  i386 install w/ more than 4gb of RAM
Message-ID:  <001d01c873de$e1cef5b0$a56ce110$@com>
In-Reply-To: <fphkml$m2m$1@ger.gmane.org>
References:  <20080220035752.GR99258@elvis.mu.org>	<4594886.5961203490569242.JavaMail.root@ly.sdf.com> <fphkml$m2m$1@ger.gmane.org>

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Thank you all for your suggestions. I have been trying to push to move =
to amd64 architecture for all the reasons you all stated. For the =
record, we tested PAE on one machine, booted the kernel w/ nextboot and =
it crashed about 15 minutes later. I will consider configuring a dump =
device to analyze the kernel dumps, but for now we reverted to the =
original i386 kernel and are likely going to scrap the PAE idea and move =
to amd64.

This was a management decision (obviously) and the people who originally =
built this box (long before I was there), did not have enough experience =
or foresight. i was hoping for alternative suggestions to reduce =
downtime of these boxes, such as recompiling amd64 manually instead of a =
fresh install.

These boxes are just Apache, Mysql, PHP type boxes. Nothing exotic or =
fancy.



Thanks again for your suggestions. I am trying my best to relay the =
reasoning and rock-solid logic ;)




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org =
[mailto:owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Ivan Voras
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:35 AM
To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Dual Core Xeon / i386 install w/ more than 4gb of RAM

Tom Samplonius wrote:

>   Is PAE really that stable?  I thought it was fairly unpolished, =
mainly because PAE is seen as a weak kludge implemented by Intel because =
they all thought we would all be using Itanium's by now.  Intel reversed =
their folly pretty quickly, adopted the x86-64 extensions as-is from =
AMD, and pushed them onto every piece of silicon they make.

Architecturally, it's a nasty kludge. As far as stability on FreeBSD is =
concerned, my only machine under PAE with 4 GB RAM (without PAE it would =
use a bit over 3 GB) is very solid on 6-STABLE.

>   I also really don't know how anyone would properly use 16GB of RAM =
under PAE anyways?  Each process is going to limited to just under 4GB.  =
The kernel memory space can't be bigger than 4GB either, so forget about =
a huge disk cache.

As I understand it, one possible benefit could be to use the memory for =
disk / file cache. AFAIK the pages are just pages, without distinction =
where they are mapped, and for example, if you run PostgreSQL, it =
couldn't use more than 4 GB for its own data (actually closer to 2 GB =
because of some sysvshm issues) but it will indirectly use the cache.

>   And is there some really stability fear about FreeBSD on x86-64?  =
Seems just the same as i386.

I agree, FreeBSD on amd64 is very stable.





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