Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 01:51:59 +0000 From: Pau Amma <pauamma@gundo.com> To: Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@freebsd.org> Cc: Postmaster <postmaster@freebsd.org>, FreeBSD accessibility <freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Please switch freebsd-accessibility@ to open posting Message-ID: <82ea00fb2d62f3adf3b24f143b77d210@gundo.com> In-Reply-To: <B28D577E-9C96-49F4-8E25-3655E5504AD3@FreeBSD.org> References: <c08aedc952e7e164d9c790ef2d98c8ac@gundo.com> <20220630065413.xx4ufbjjzhsa5hut@aniel.nours.eu> <98972db391c2cd06388e8200815b1ed8@gundo.com> <B28D577E-9C96-49F4-8E25-3655E5504AD3@FreeBSD.org>
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On 2022-07-02 17:00, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > Le 2 juillet 2022 08:23:53 GMT+02:00, Pau Amma <pauamma@gundo.com> a > écrit : >> On 2022-06-30 06:54, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 03:13:09AM +0000, Pau Amma wrote: >>>> I meant for it to be when I requested its creation and thought based >>>> on the >>>> email I received asking for list information that it would be by >>>> default, >>>> but per https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=264895#c5, >>>> the >>>> default was changed silently. >>> >>> Yes when you requested you specifically asked for open mailing list >>> it wasn't >>> changed silently it was missed in the initial request by myself, >>> otherwise I >>> would have answered the following: >>> By default we do setup all the mailing list as subscription only >>> and/or moderated, >>> most mailing list were configured like this long ago and I first >>> dropped it for 6 >>> month this politic while migrating to mlmmj and reinstanciated it >>> back. Why? >>> because of the amount of spam that went through the mailing lists and >>> creates lot >>> of work for us postmaster: >>> - dealing with people complaining about spam in the mailing lists >>> - monitoring such emails and flagging them as such to cleanup the >>> public >>> archives as much as possible from the spam etc. >>> >>> So beside strong arguments >> >> Here's one: "nothing about us without us". >> >> Accordingly, please consider the following: >> - post an apology to the list for accidentally not making it open then >> claiming "Subscription is easy" instead of asking us, including those >> of us with cognitive disabilities, how harder that extra hoop to jump >> through makes posting for us. >> - acknowledge the list exists primarily for our benefit, not the >> benefit of postmaster members or FreeBSD contributors as a whole (see >> the note at the end of >> https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-accessibility/2021-October/000000.html >> for another example of that). >> - ask us what we need and want, mention constraints you have that are >> or may be relevant (like the effort curbing spam and any others that >> you think also worth mentioning), then let us hash out the trade-offs >> and what works better for us. >> >> It may be that no clear consensus or decision emerges, or that one >> emerges agreeing with your position. I'm not the only one with a stake >> in this, and will abide by the outcome. That, however, doesn't excuse >> you from reaching out to us or doing due diligence. > > Wow just wow, I believe we deserve a minimum of respect and > benevolence. Being patronized like that is clearly the opposite of > that. Instead of calling me patronizing and disrespectful without (apparently) considering whether you were both first, you could have focused on the issues I raised. > We are spending countless hours of free time to try to provide the > best service as possible with the resource we have, we make mistake, > we can also make bad choices and they can be revisited, but clearly > not with such a disrespectful tone. What you resorted to instead is known as the tone argument, and is often used (knowingly or unknowingly) as a derailing or silencing method. See https://www.speak-up.org/derail/#toneargument for a good description. (The whole page is good reading for anyone interested in learning more on derailing.) -- #BlackLivesMatter #TransWomenAreWomen #AccessibilityMatters #StandWithUkrainians English: he/him/his (singular they/them/their/theirs OK) French: il/le/lui (iel/iel and ielle/ielle OK) Tagalog: siya/niya/kaniya (please avoid sila/nila/kanila)
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