Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:10:35 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Byram <mark@linux4life.com> To: Sue Blake <sue@welearn.com.au> Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: desktop stupidity Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990202000933.1507B-100000@sara.linux4life.com> In-Reply-To: <19990202185713.43112@welearn.com.au>
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Sounds like you have a few stereo types of your own Sue...
Please don't be too hard on "us" insensitive brutes... :)
On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Sue Blake wrote:
> Now wait a minute! Most of you people don't know what newbies need, you
> haven't asked them, won't listen or believe or sit down with them to
> help them work it out for themselves, you're so set with your
> comfortable little stereotypes that you really think you know the Great
> Truth and have all the solutions and nobody can tell you different,
> least of all a loathsome newbie. You think you can just dish something
> up and they'll love it. What if you're wrong? Oh, yes, newbies fault.
>
> As a group you show very little respect for newbies, yet you think you
> can get your jollies off by patronising the types of lazy wimps that no
> self-respecting FreeBSD newbie would want to be associated with. With
> luck you might even trap some newbies into perpetual helplessness and
> some of you might raise your status as helpers by so doing.
>
> You're mad, the lot of you. Stop and learn (remember that?), or go back
> to your kernel entrails.
>
> We have a few hundred newbies here who constantly try to do the right
> thing, who want to learn, and are largely ignored because, not fitting
> the stereotype, they're not fun to pick on or you can't get warm
> fuzzies and the occasional sucked toe from having fun "helping" them
> the way you see fit. Throwing GUI at them is like telling them to eat
> cake. All they want is the bloody recipe and a bit of human respect.
>
> The newbies I see are put off or held back by:
> - lack of reliable advice as to what to do/learn first, second, third ...
> - lack of suitable documentation at the right pace and starting point
> - misunderstanding of their learning needs by others
> - inaccessibility of many of the tools they need to use during the
> first few hours, before being able to execute a learning plan
> - misguided attempts to "help" them which only hold them back
> - a constant trickle of put-downs and resultant lack of confidence
> - inability to create what they need for themselves or communicate
> needs to developers
>
> They might have only had some GUI background, but that does not mean
> they want to stay that way. Why the hell do you think they're running
> FreeBSD, because they're too stupid to know what it is? Come on! Lack
> of knowledge does not indicate stupidity. I'll challenge any of you to
> a test of crochet knowledge or skill and see how you fare!
>
> As I see it, *the* problem that faces new users is that their learning
> involves too many other struggles in addition to the learning process,
> as outlined above. Yet despite these glaring needs, you're all crapping
> on about how much fun you would have getting together some GUI
> environment and/or tools that would
> - attract people who have no intention of learning anything new
> - make it extremely difficult for our current type of newbies to
> get inside and find out how things work.
> - provide time-wasting support fodder to reinforce the stereotype
>
> Now you want to add one more problem: an environmental prison that at
> first makes learning seem unnecessary, and later on makes it much more
> inaccessible than what we have now. What on earth makes you think
> newbies want such a mindless and limiting GUI? They want a basic plain
> but non-hostile interface that is easy for them to work with initially
> and easy to learn to control themselves. For those who most deserve
> help, KDE just doesn't cut it. Nor does any other window manager
> without a lot more easy guides for inquisitive non-programmers and
> suitably annotated configuration files (yes I said files, NOT tools).
>
> I keep saying this and the time has come round again:
>
> Newbies will adapt to become whatever you expect of them.
>
> Think carefully before you act; you might just get whatever you expect.
>
>
> KDE is nice for what it is and should be provided with FreeBSD and made
> easy to install. There's nothing wrong with KDE for those who prefer it
> to the alternatives, or those who have a paid administrator at their
> elbow. It's just not *the* answer, even if you were asking the right
> questions. We don't have the resources to deal with attracting people
> who can't survive without something like KDE. We can't even cope with
> the beginner linux refugees and wannabe developers who are working
> through their newbie phase right now, and that's a more urgent priority
> as I see it. Newbies have contributed a huge amount during the last 12
> months, and are a growing resource we can't afford to chase away or
> restrict to an environment of learned helplessness.
>
> What's that I hear down the back? diffs? Yeah they're coming. Don't
> hold your breath too hard though. It takes me a hundred times as long
> as it'd take someone who knows what they're doing, but it's still
> quicker than knocking sense into some of your collectively patronising
> heads, and far less humiliating.
>
>
> --
>
> Regards,
> -*Sue*-
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
>
Sincerely, %###%
(0-0)
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| Mark Byram |
| <mark@linux4life.com> |
| UNIX is all you need! |
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